six speed swap

j-radvw · 09-20-2009, 10:14 PM

ok i thinking about doing a 6 speed swap. my 5 speed is dying a very noise clinking grinding death, and its my DD so i have no outher optionbut to drive it. in 4 and 5 it sounds like i driving a striped out race car with 700 hp trans wine, i can barely here the radio and it all most unbearable with the top up.

any ways so i need a 6 six speed, ppf and do i need the drive shaft? and about the speedo cable. i just unbolt the electric sensor speedo and bolt up the cable? and i have i 1.6 just so you know

now who wonts to sell me there 6 speed

Sin-Tek · 09-20-2009, 10:22 PM

I would stick with a new 5-speed. The novelty of a 6-speed will get old fast. if you auto-x at all you will be shifting between 2nd and 3rd alot.

j-radvw · 09-20-2009, 10:27 PM

i know and it would be cheeper to stay 5 speed but ive herd that with a 1.6 it makes it a bit better to drive

sydwayz · 09-20-2009, 11:01 PM

stay with the five speed, unless your making lots of power, the 5spd is the way to go.

j-radvw · 09-20-2009, 11:04 PM

if i did stay 1.6 or 1.8 5 speed

RWD_only · 09-21-2009, 03:00 AM

They are pretty much identical so whichever is cheaper.

apexscalpel · 09-21-2009, 08:11 AM

A 6 speed will drop right in, thats what I'm doing. I have the 6 speed, I'm just waiting on my motor to get finished so I can put it all together. If you're going to pussy out on a 6 speed

then get the newest, lowest milage 5 speed you can. After my first tranny got stuck in fourth, I picked up a 94 5 speed with 130k on it for $100 and 6 months later it was grinding into 3rd. So since I had the engine out for the rebuild I decided to go for a 03 6 speed with 27k

avante43 · 09-21-2009, 09:09 AM

So here's what you need for a 6 speed swap.
1) the 6 Speed tranny
2) the 6 speed starter motor
3) the metal plate thingy that goes in between the flywheel and engine.
4) the 6 speed shifter.

That's what you need if you want the swap to be a complete bolt on.
If you want to do some work, you dont need 3 and 4.
You can use the metal plate thing that is on your car, but you either A)have to drill an additional hole or B)use only 2 out of 3 bolts to hold the starter on (my friend has had his starter on with two bolts for years with no issues)
As for the shifter, the 6 speed shifter is different but you can get the 5 speed shifter to bolt on with some modding.

Also, since you have the 1.6, you will definitely want to get a different rear end.
Your car has a 4.3 rear end so if you combine that with the 6 speed, 1st gear will be completely useless. My friend has the 6 speed with the 4.1 rear and and I still think that it sucks. You really should get the 3.9 or 3.6 rear end if you are going 6 speed.

RacingBeatMx-5 · 09-21-2009, 10:36 AM

What do you mean by the rear end will be useless? Cause I have a 1.6 on my 90 and will be doing this swap if I find a cheap 6 speed tranz.

Verwah · 09-21-2009, 10:50 AM

He means you will be shifting a gear for every mile per hour you accelerate. I have an MSM and we have the 4:10 rear end with the Aisin 6spd. First gear is mighty low and we shift below 15 mph if we are just cruising round town. That is about a 3,000 rpm shift point. if we are getting on it, a redline shift happens at about 30 mph. Which comes up very fast. Second gear isn't much further off. With your even shorter rear end, you are going to be shifting like its going out of style. Trust us, if you go to the 6spd, ditch the 4:30 and get the 3.636 from Good-Win Racing or Miata Roadster.

RacingBeatMx-5 · 09-21-2009, 11:04 AM

O ok thanks for the info!

Max_Power · 09-21-2009, 11:15 AM

The advice for the 3.636 gear is good for a car with tons of power but on a stock 1.6 you need to have low gears - so you better swap only the 6 speed (other wise it would be like a 5 speed with an overdrive).

Anyway I have 6 speed for sale for whoever want one...

Verwah · 09-21-2009, 11:28 AM

Maybe a 4:10 rear end would be better for a near stock 1.6. I can see how it would be pretty decent with a non-turbo car. But with the MSM, if you add an intake and exhaust, you will want the 3.63 pretty quickly.

The White Miata · 09-21-2009, 12:49 PM

I have the 6sp with the 4.10, and first gear is still pretty much useless. I shift at about 17 when cruising and at ~7k i'm only going 30-32 like stated above. If I were to do it again, I would have bought a 5sp car

twmboy · 09-21-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avante43

So here's what you need for a 6 speed swap.
1) the 6 Speed tranny
2) the 6 speed starter motor
3) the metal plate thingy that goes in between the flywheel and engine.
4) the 6 speed shifter.

That's what you need if you want the swap to be a complete bolt on.
If you want to do some work, you dont need 3 and 4.
You can use the metal plate thing that is on your car, but you either A)have to drill an additional hole or B)use only 2 out of 3 bolts to hold the starter on (my friend has had his starter on with two bolts for years with no issues)
As for the shifter, the 6 speed shifter is different but you can get the 5 speed shifter to bolt on with some modding.

Also, since you have the 1.6, you will definitely want to get a different rear end.
Your car has a 4.3 rear end so if you combine that with the 6 speed, 1st gear will be completely useless. My friend has the 6 speed with the 4.1 rear and and I still think that it sucks. You really should get the 3.9 or 3.6 rear end if you are going 6 speed.

all you need is 1 and 4 to do the swap. if you want to do it right, add 2 and 3.

I have a 6spd in my 94m w/ 13" wheels... I love it, but sometimes I wish I had a 3.9 rear on the freeway.

j-radvw · 09-21-2009, 02:09 PM

so i dont need the ppf and the drive shaft?

Broketuner · 09-21-2009, 03:45 PM

as far as I know twmboy is right. in fact I know he is because my car's a 10AE(OEM 6 speed) but right now it's got a 5 speed trans in it and I used the driveshaft and PPF that came with the car.

if you're not boosted a 6 speed should be fine for anything you choose to do with the car, if you're making more than say 200whp though as suggested, keep a 5 speed and possibly even go to a lower ratio rear end

j-radvw · 09-21-2009, 04:11 PM

why would a 5 speed be better for a boosted car? and thank you all for the replys so far

Broketuner · 09-21-2009, 04:49 PM

it would split the gearing up.....longer gearing = better RPM at freeways, longer periods in boost, etc.

The White Miata · 09-21-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broketuner

it would split the gearing up.....longer gearing = better RPM at freeways, longer periods in boost, etc.

but...with as close as the ratio's on the 6 speed are, you're always in boost anyways...

Verwah · 09-21-2009, 07:40 PM

Nah. Boost is engine load dependent. If you can hang onto a gear longer, you can peak boost longer. = more torque. The six speed keeps you shifting and constantly building boost back up. = not as much time at full boost. And your 1.6 is going to require at least 3 seconds to build up full boost. (if you're car is set to boost 7lbs or more that is) The six speed is through the first three gears with less than 3 seconds duration in each. Maybe a full four seconds for fourth. And that is with my 1.8 and a 4:10 rear end. Your 1.6 with a 4:30 would never peak boost in the first three gears. It's really that ridiculous.

RacingBeatMx-5 · 09-21-2009, 07:51 PM

But for my stock 1.6 a 6 speed tranz would be alot better cause it would mean quicker shifts so I would hit red line quicker. Meaning I would reach peak HP and torque quicker and more often cause I have to shift more often correct?

RacingBeatMx-5 · 09-21-2009, 09:49 PM

?

my97miata · 09-23-2009, 09:51 AM

From what I understand the 6 speed with a 3.63 rear end is the way to go, good for acceleration and cruising.

The White Miata · 09-23-2009, 09:54 AM

6 speed with 4.10 is no good for crusing. at 80 i'm at 4k rpms.

There is a local guy with a disco potato making 345 to the wheels, and a 6-speed with the 3.63 is perfect for him.

He took me for a ride in it, permanent smile.

avante43 · 09-23-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacingBeatMx-5

But for my stock 1.6 a 6 speed tranz would be alot better cause it would mean quicker shifts so I would hit red line quicker. Meaning I would reach peak HP and torque quicker and more often cause I have to shift more often correct?

It depends on what you want to do with your car.
Your gearing with the 6 speed and a 4.3 will be very very low.

That being said, there are people that have a 5 speed and put the 4.8 rear end in for lower ratios.

So yes, the 6 speed with 4.3 will give you lower gearing and make the car accelerate faster. The downside is that you will have to shift more often and driving the car on the highway will suck.

With a 6 speed and a 4.3 rear end, you car will be revving at about 4250rpm in 6th gear going 80mph.
I definitely wouldnt do it on a daily driver.

Claff · 09-23-2009, 03:30 PM

Drive a Miata with a six-speed before being absolutely sure you want to go that route. I really don't like the six-speed in our MSM. Not nearly as smooth or fun as the five-speeds. Might be this particular car but I've heard others complain about the six-speeds too.

Verwah · 09-23-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacingBeatMx-5

But for my stock 1.6 a 6 speed tranz would be alot better cause it would mean quicker shifts so I would hit red line quicker. Meaning I would reach peak HP and torque quicker and more often cause I have to shift more often correct?

If you are staying with stock power levels for your 1.6, or close to stock anyway, then you are correct about peak power. Not peak torque though. If you are giving it the gusto and wringing out every gear, you will constantly be above you peak torque. And torque is what makes the car move quickly out of corners. Your car will feel more like a high strung sport bike with the 4:30 rear end. Constantly shifting with sustained high rpms. the 4:10 would be better, with a more balanced range in each gear. With the 4:10, you would be closer to your peak torque after every shift, and you can still hold the gear until peak power up at 6800. Idealy, you will want the car to begin each gear around 4200-4500 rpms when running flat out. the 4:30 would land you at least at 4500, probably more. I wish I could show you an accel sheet with the rpm range in each gear with all the different transmission/rear end combinations. Don't have time to look for one right now, but I may post one here later. either 949 racing, or Flyin' Miata has one on their websites.

Verwah · 09-23-2009, 04:50 PM

Actually, that was easy to find.

http://www.949racing.com/server/949R..._chart_web.xls

Play around with the final gear ratio in the blue box. Provided are graphs for both the six speed, and the five speed. available rear ends to you are the 4.30, the 4.10, the 3.9 and the 3.636. There might be more. the 4.10 is what I have stock in my MSM. the 4.30 is what you have stock with your 1.6 NA. (I think) and the 3.636 is an aftermarket gear set from Mazdaspeed.

Max_Power · 09-23-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The White Miata

6 speed with 4.10 is no good for crusing. at 80 i'm at 4k rpms.

There is a local guy with a disco potato making 345 to the wheels, and a 6-speed with the 3.63 is perfect for him.

He took me for a ride in it, permanent smile.

It all depends on the engine and the HP...
1.6 six speed is good
1.8 - many think it's better
Boosted - 6 speed with 3.636 is perfect since it has the best reliability with low rpm at the fwy

09-20-2009, 10:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
j-radvw Supporting Member #5522 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: patriot, Indiana Posts: 2,711	six speed swap ok i thinking about doing a 6 speed swap. my 5 speed is dying a very noise clinking grinding death, and its my DD so i have no outher optionbut to drive it. in 4 and 5 it sounds like i driving a striped out race car with 700 hp trans wine, i can barely here the radio and it all most unbearable with the top up. any ways so i need a 6 six speed, ppf and do i need the drive shaft? and about the speedo cable. i just unbolt the electric sensor speedo and bolt up the cable? and i have i 1.6 just so you know now who wonts to sell me there 6 speed
	__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947970 Build thread http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-roadster-projects/39675-millennium-jade-build-thread-if-you-want-call.html The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving lives since 2010

09-20-2009, 10:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sin-Tek I <3 CR Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Susanville.....i miss Orange County. Posts: 1,050	Re: six speed swap I would stick with a new 5-speed. The novelty of a 6-speed will get old fast. if you auto-x at all you will be shifting between 2nd and 3rd alot.

09-20-2009, 10:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
j-radvw Supporting Member #5522 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: patriot, Indiana Posts: 2,711	Re: six speed swap i know and it would be cheeper to stay 5 speed but ive herd that with a 1.6 it makes it a bit better to drive
	__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947970 Build thread http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39675 The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving lives since 2010

09-20-2009, 11:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
sydwayz I can haz custom title! Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wamego, KS / Baghdad, Iraq Posts: 573	Re: six speed swap stay with the five speed, unless your making lots of power, the 5spd is the way to go.

09-20-2009, 11:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
j-radvw Supporting Member #5522 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: patriot, Indiana Posts: 2,711	Re: six speed swap if i did stay 1.6 or 1.8 5 speed
	__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947970 Build thread http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39675 The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving lives since 2010

09-21-2009, 08:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
apexscalpel Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL Posts: 860	Re: six speed swap A 6 speed will drop right in, thats what I'm doing. I have the 6 speed, I'm just waiting on my motor to get finished so I can put it all together. If you're going to pussy out on a 6 speed then get the newest, lowest milage 5 speed you can. After my first tranny got stuck in fourth, I picked up a 94 5 speed with 130k on it for $100 and 6 months later it was grinding into 3rd. So since I had the engine out for the rebuild I decided to go for a 03 6 speed with 27k
	__________________ Flickr ___ ___ ___ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _

09-21-2009, 09:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
avante43 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 146	Re: six speed swap So here's what you need for a 6 speed swap. 1) the 6 Speed tranny 2) the 6 speed starter motor 3) the metal plate thingy that goes in between the flywheel and engine. 4) the 6 speed shifter. That's what you need if you want the swap to be a complete bolt on. If you want to do some work, you dont need 3 and 4. You can use the metal plate thing that is on your car, but you either A)have to drill an additional hole or B)use only 2 out of 3 bolts to hold the starter on (my friend has had his starter on with two bolts for years with no issues) As for the shifter, the 6 speed shifter is different but you can get the 5 speed shifter to bolt on with some modding. Also, since you have the 1.6, you will definitely want to get a different rear end. Your car has a 4.3 rear end so if you combine that with the 6 speed, 1st gear will be completely useless. My friend has the 6 speed with the 4.1 rear and and I still think that it sucks. You really should get the 3.9 or 3.6 rear end if you are going 6 speed.
avante43 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 146

09-21-2009, 10:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
RacingBeatMx-5 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OC CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,424	Re: six speed swap What do you mean by the rear end will be useless? Cause I have a 1.6 on my 90 and will be doing this swap if I find a cheap 6 speed tranz.

09-21-2009, 10:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
Verwah Going up the Country Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,960	Re: six speed swap He means you will be shifting a gear for every mile per hour you accelerate. I have an MSM and we have the 4:10 rear end with the Aisin 6spd. First gear is mighty low and we shift below 15 mph if we are just cruising round town. That is about a 3,000 rpm shift point. if we are getting on it, a redline shift happens at about 30 mph. Which comes up very fast. Second gear isn't much further off. With your even shorter rear end, you are going to be shifting like its going out of style. Trust us, if you go to the 6spd, ditch the 4:30 and get the 3.636 from Good-Win Racing or Miata Roadster.
	Last edited by Verwah; 09-21-2009 at 11:04 AM.

09-21-2009, 11:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
RacingBeatMx-5 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OC CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,424	Re: six speed swap O ok thanks for the info!

09-21-2009, 11:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
Max_Power Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 3,830	Re: six speed swap The advice for the 3.636 gear is good for a car with tons of power but on a stock 1.6 you need to have low gears - so you better swap only the 6 speed (other wise it would be like a 5 speed with an overdrive). Anyway I have 6 speed for sale for whoever want one...
	__________________ Chris Autokonexion Kevlar bumper and fenders 2096lbs FM 2.0L Stroker+GT2560+V-mount+1000cc ID+E85+22psi->335 whp Ford Motorsport Tremec T5z 5 speed transmission 275 Hoosier Koni 3011 coilovers 900 Lbs/inch springs - Daily Driver

09-21-2009, 11:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
Verwah Going up the Country Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,960	Re: six speed swap Maybe a 4:10 rear end would be better for a near stock 1.6. I can see how it would be pretty decent with a non-turbo car. But with the MSM, if you add an intake and exhaust, you will want the 3.63 pretty quickly.

09-21-2009, 02:09 PM	#16 (permalink)
j-radvw Supporting Member #5522 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: patriot, Indiana Posts: 2,711	Re: six speed swap so i dont need the ppf and the drive shaft?
	__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947970 Build thread http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39675 The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving lives since 2010

09-21-2009, 03:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
Broketuner Hardparker Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ventura County, so cal Posts: 3,005	Re: six speed swap as far as I know twmboy is right. in fact I know he is because my car's a 10AE(OEM 6 speed) but right now it's got a 5 speed trans in it and I used the driveshaft and PPF that came with the car. if you're not boosted a 6 speed should be fine for anything you choose to do with the car, if you're making more than say 200whp though as suggested, keep a 5 speed and possibly even go to a lower ratio rear end

09-21-2009, 04:11 PM	#18 (permalink)
j-radvw Supporting Member #5522 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: patriot, Indiana Posts: 2,711	Re: six speed swap why would a 5 speed be better for a boosted car? and thank you all for the replys so far
	__________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947970 Build thread http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=39675 The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving lives since 2010

09-21-2009, 04:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
Broketuner Hardparker Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ventura County, so cal Posts: 3,005	Re: six speed swap it would split the gearing up.....longer gearing = better RPM at freeways, longer periods in boost, etc.

09-21-2009, 07:40 PM	#21 (permalink)
Verwah Going up the Country Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,960	Re: six speed swap Nah. Boost is engine load dependent. If you can hang onto a gear longer, you can peak boost longer. = more torque. The six speed keeps you shifting and constantly building boost back up. = not as much time at full boost. And your 1.6 is going to require at least 3 seconds to build up full boost. (if you're car is set to boost 7lbs or more that is) The six speed is through the first three gears with less than 3 seconds duration in each. Maybe a full four seconds for fourth. And that is with my 1.8 and a 4:10 rear end. Your 1.6 with a 4:30 would never peak boost in the first three gears. It's really that ridiculous.

09-21-2009, 07:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
RacingBeatMx-5 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OC CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,424	Re: six speed swap But for my stock 1.6 a 6 speed tranz would be alot better cause it would mean quicker shifts so I would hit red line quicker. Meaning I would reach peak HP and torque quicker and more often cause I have to shift more often correct?

09-21-2009, 09:49 PM	#23 (permalink)
RacingBeatMx-5 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: OC CALIFORNIA Posts: 1,424	Re: six speed swap ?

09-23-2009, 09:51 AM	#24 (permalink)
my97miata Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 335	Re: six speed swap From what I understand the 6 speed with a 3.63 rear end is the way to go, good for acceleration and cruising.

09-23-2009, 03:30 PM	#27 (permalink)
Claff Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Waldorf, MD Posts: 331	Re: six speed swap Drive a Miata with a six-speed before being absolutely sure you want to go that route. I really don't like the six-speed in our MSM. Not nearly as smooth or fun as the five-speeds. Might be this particular car but I've heard others complain about the six-speeds too.

09-23-2009, 04:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
Verwah Going up the Country Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,960	Re: six speed swap Actually, that was easy to find. http://www.949racing.com/server/949R..._chart_web.xls Play around with the final gear ratio in the blue box. Provided are graphs for both the six speed, and the five speed. available rear ends to you are the 4.30, the 4.10, the 3.9 and the 3.636. There might be more. the 4.10 is what I have stock in my MSM. the 4.30 is what you have stock with your 1.6 NA. (I think) and the 3.636 is an aftermarket gear set from Mazdaspeed.
	Last edited by Verwah; 09-23-2009 at 04:53 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode