MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions.

91Miata23 · 08-26-2010, 02:33 AM

Ok so i was looking around and had the idea, maybe I should put a Newer 1.8 out of a 04-05 Mazdaspeed in my car.

I DID search on here a bit and a little on m.net but i still have a few questions.

1.DO you guys think its a good idea
2.To do the swap was thinking of basically swapping everything over from a wrecked MSM(rear ended) engine+trans, full wire harness, cluster. (maybe even dash)
3.Could I still retain my 1.6 rear end. Or would it just be best to swap the rear of the MSM in there?

I'm really thinking of going this route, the best miata engine (in my opinion) in a classic red Na just sounds a bit awesome to me. Plus turbo power

Don't flame me on this

Migit109 · 08-26-2010, 03:00 AM

most of the time it wouldnt be worth it, but since you have a whole msm id say maybe depending on if you think its worth it to get minimal gains over a stock nb bp

when you could just get a nb bp turbo it (to your liking) instead of swapping out a whole wiring harness and being stuck with a meh turbo until you replace the exhaust manifold and downpipe

if your strapped for cash and have plenty of spare time and have your heart set on it, id say yes. Otherwise id say get a nb bp motor and turbo that and save a lot of time.

just my 2 cents

Fresh NB · 08-26-2010, 03:00 AM

Interested to here people's feedback.

DazedAndConfused · 08-26-2010, 03:01 AM

I've seen it done before with dash and everything and it looked clean as hell. I would swap the rear end for a torsen, but not a MSM one. They are not as easy to come by as earlier model 1.8 torsens.

91Miata23 · 08-26-2010, 03:15 AM

I basically have the MSM for the engine+trans+dash+harness+ecu+exhaust (can get these)
I don't want to do a turbo build myself cause I'm just lazy.
Plus, I'm not this power hungry guy I'm fine with stock Na 1.6 power all 70hp my car probably had when it was running.

But I drove a MSM and I just fell in love with that engine in stock form. I'm a sucker for OEM+ as well.

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 03:23 AM

Get the drivetrain, swap the valve cover for the normal NB 1.8 valve cover so you can use your OEM ignition, and shit will bolt up like a standard NB 1.8 swap. Add megasquirt, tune to flavor, and enjoy.

Migit109 · 08-26-2010, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwrofturbo

Get the drivetrain, swap the valve cover for the normal NB 1.8 valve cover so you can use your OEM ignition, and shit will bolt up like a standard NB 1.8 swap. Add megasquirt, tune to flavor, and enjoy.

ah ah ah... cant do that its a different bolt pattern for the valve cover on a msm than a nb bp

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migit109

ah ah ah... cant do that its a different bolt pattern for the valve cover on a msm than a nb bp

Are you sure? AFAIK the head is identical to the BP4W in the 99-00 minus the valve cover and COPs. It doesn't really matter though, you should be able to use stock ignition wires on the MSM cover anyways. Or just wire in the MSM COPs for megasquirt.

Migit109 · 08-26-2010, 04:47 AM

i think if you do any swap its a good time for a trim on the wire harness

and delete a buncha shit

RustyNWeathered · 08-26-2010, 05:35 AM

eh..I think the turbo system on the MSM is junk..

RustyNWeathered · 08-26-2010, 05:35 AM

sexy ass cars tho...would love to have one...just wouldnt do that swap

sideshow · 08-26-2010, 05:49 AM

http://miata.net/motm/2008/brandt.html

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 06:07 AM

Bam. MSM valve cover and NA ignition.

innocent_blue · 08-26-2010, 04:41 PM

do it. it's worth it

Migit109 · 08-26-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwrofturbo

Bam. MSM valve cover and NA ignition.

err what?
its a msm engine in a NA... dont you see that intake going to the turbo and the piping going down from the intake manifold?

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migit109

err what?
its a msm engine in a NA... dont you see that intake going to the turbo and the piping going down from the intake manifold?

What are you confused about?

It's an MSM engine, with an MSM valve cover, using the standard NA ignition and not the MSM coil on plugs.

Migit109 · 08-26-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwrofturbo

What are you confused about?

It's an MSM engine, with an MSM valve cover, using the standard NA ignition and not the MSM coil on plugs.

thats my retarded fault, i miss read it completely

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 05:07 PM

innocent_blue · 08-26-2010, 05:07 PM

Verwah · 08-26-2010, 05:14 PM

I know a guy who did it. He's on mazda-speed.com as '95MSM. He can probably give you tips. I know it wasn't easy.

mini_FD · 08-26-2010, 08:09 PM

If you do the swap, you need the mobilizer and ignition set so the motor can start. It's a fail safe system that i heard some can bypass. Then again, you said your ignition is going to be from your motor.

91Miata23 · 08-26-2010, 08:24 PM

No, Ill have the ignition from the MSM

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 08:36 PM

Please, don't do that. Use the OEM NA ignition, the NA harness, and run a standalone. It's the easiest way. The OEM MSM ecu is garbage and you'd have to swap the entire wiring harnesses to use it, which is a pain in the ass.

Unless you're saying you're using the MSM coils with a standalone, in which case it's fine.

91Miata23 · 08-26-2010, 08:43 PM

Ok, Ill explain again.
Basically I have a full MSM with a wrecked rear end and EVERYTHING is still intact. all i have to do is switch it ALL over to the na

saedrin · 08-26-2010, 09:03 PM

Right, I'm telling you the OEM MSM ecu is a pile of shit. In order to use the OEM ecu, you'd have to switch the entire wiring harness over (immobilizer, engine sensors, ignition, etc). It's much easier, and better in the long run, to run a megasquirt. They're cheap, you don't have to swap any harness over, many people can tune them, and you'll never be hindered by lean-tip in, TPS problems, crappy running conditions, etc like you will with the OEM MSM. There is a reason it is highly recommended to replace the MSM ecu.

91Miata23 · 08-26-2010, 09:43 PM

But, I do plan on doing the full harness conversion. So i can tuck some wires blah blah. And thanks for the heads up on the MS

MSMjohn · 08-28-2010, 01:46 PM

To go through all that trouble for a MSM engine stock is not worth it. The MSM needs to be modified to be worth it but when you begin to mod it you begin to run into a bunch of problems.

Migit109 · 08-28-2010, 02:31 PM

from what i can tell making 220hp is fine for him and thats just injectors, new intercooler, boost controller, and exhaust right?

saedrin · 08-28-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migit109

from what i can tell making 220hp is fine for him and thats just injectors, new intercooler, boost controller, and exhaust right?

ECU.

MSMjohn · 08-29-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwrofturbo

Right, I'm telling you the OEM MSM ecu is a pile of shit. In order to use the OEM ecu, you'd have to switch the entire wiring harness over (immobilizer, engine sensors, ignition, etc). It's much easier, and better in the long run, to run a megasquirt. They're cheap, you don't have to swap any harness over, many people can tune them, and you'll never be hindered by lean-tip in, TPS problems, crappy running conditions, etc like you will with the OEM MSM. There is a reason it is highly recommended to replace the MSM ecu.

You are correct the OEM MSM ecu is a pile of junk.

08-26-2010, 02:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
91Miata23 Supporting Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Morgan City, Louisiana Posts: 1,392	MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Ok so i was looking around and had the idea, maybe I should put a Newer 1.8 out of a 04-05 Mazdaspeed in my car. I DID search on here a bit and a little on m.net but i still have a few questions. 1.DO you guys think its a good idea 2.To do the swap was thinking of basically swapping everything over from a wrecked MSM(rear ended) engine+trans, full wire harness, cluster. (maybe even dash) 3.Could I still retain my 1.6 rear end. Or would it just be best to swap the rear of the MSM in there? I'm really thinking of going this route, the best miata engine (in my opinion) in a classic red Na just sounds a bit awesome to me. Plus turbo power Don't flame me on this

08-26-2010, 03:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Migit109 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gilbert,AZ Posts: 883	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. most of the time it wouldnt be worth it, but since you have a whole msm id say maybe depending on if you think its worth it to get minimal gains over a stock nb bp when you could just get a nb bp turbo it (to your liking) instead of swapping out a whole wiring harness and being stuck with a meh turbo until you replace the exhaust manifold and downpipe if your strapped for cash and have plenty of spare time and have your heart set on it, id say yes. Otherwise id say get a nb bp motor and turbo that and save a lot of time. just my 2 cents
	__________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I will fuck the old out of you! Right now, all night long!" -The Incresingly Poor Decisions Of Todd Margaret The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving Lives since 2010

08-26-2010, 03:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
DazedAndConfused Esteemed Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Fort Swag Posts: 5,207	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. I've seen it done before with dash and everything and it looked clean as hell. I would swap the rear end for a torsen, but not a MSM one. They are not as easy to come by as earlier model 1.8 torsens.

08-26-2010, 03:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
91Miata23 Supporting Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Morgan City, Louisiana Posts: 1,392	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. I basically have the MSM for the engine+trans+dash+harness+ecu+exhaust (can get these) I don't want to do a turbo build myself cause I'm just lazy. Plus, I'm not this power hungry guy I'm fine with stock Na 1.6 power all 70hp my car probably had when it was running. But I drove a MSM and I just fell in love with that engine in stock form. I'm a sucker for OEM+ as well.

08-26-2010, 03:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
saedrin Function > Form Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago - North Shore Posts: 1,302	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Get the drivetrain, swap the valve cover for the normal NB 1.8 valve cover so you can use your OEM ignition, and shit will bolt up like a standard NB 1.8 swap. Add megasquirt, tune to flavor, and enjoy.
	__________________ -Zack Turbo'd/r-comp'd NB1. Build Thread E39 M5, Daily. The Beast

08-26-2010, 04:47 AM	#9 (permalink)
Migit109 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gilbert,AZ Posts: 883	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. i think if you do any swap its a good time for a trim on the wire harness and delete a buncha shit
	__________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I will fuck the old out of you! Right now, all night long!" -The Incresingly Poor Decisions Of Todd Margaret The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving Lives since 2010

08-26-2010, 05:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
RustyNWeathered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Clemson SoCaR-olina Posts: 1,056	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. eh..I think the turbo system on the MSM is junk..
	__________________ I wanna rock you like the 80s

08-26-2010, 05:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
RustyNWeathered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Clemson SoCaR-olina Posts: 1,056	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. sexy ass cars tho...would love to have one...just wouldnt do that swap
	__________________ I wanna rock you like the 80s

08-26-2010, 05:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
sideshow Miata Master Join Date: May 2006 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 2,014	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. http://miata.net/motm/2008/brandt.html

08-26-2010, 06:07 AM	#13 (permalink)
saedrin Function > Form Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago - North Shore Posts: 1,302	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Bam. MSM valve cover and NA ignition.
	__________________ -Zack Turbo'd/r-comp'd NB1. Build Thread E39 M5, Daily. The Beast

08-26-2010, 04:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
innocent_blue Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hanover, MD Posts: 1,094	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. do it. it's worth it
	__________________ But there's a cool knowingness to the dialogue between man and machine that wasn't there with the original Miata: You expect this new MX-5 to be good--and aren't surprised when it is.

08-26-2010, 05:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
saedrin Function > Form Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago - North Shore Posts: 1,302	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions.
	__________________ -Zack Turbo'd/r-comp'd NB1. Build Thread E39 M5, Daily. The Beast

08-26-2010, 05:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
innocent_blue Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hanover, MD Posts: 1,094	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions.
	__________________ But there's a cool knowingness to the dialogue between man and machine that wasn't there with the original Miata: You expect this new MX-5 to be good--and aren't surprised when it is.

08-26-2010, 05:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
Verwah Going up the Country Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,960	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. I know a guy who did it. He's on mazda-speed.com as '95MSM. He can probably give you tips. I know it wasn't easy.
	__________________

08-26-2010, 08:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
mini_FD Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne Beach Posts: 1,643	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. If you do the swap, you need the mobilizer and ignition set so the motor can start. It's a fail safe system that i heard some can bypass. Then again, you said your ignition is going to be from your motor.
	__________________ My baby by rocketeerbandit, on Flickr MazdaSpeed/Garage Vary/Mishimoto/Autokonexion/AEM/ACT Stage3 6Puck/4.1torsen/Tein Flex/Racing Beat/Nardi 330mm/ Ryoku Rob/Fidanza/GarageStar/RS*R/JacksonRacingSwaybar

08-26-2010, 08:24 PM	#22 (permalink)
91Miata23 Supporting Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Morgan City, Louisiana Posts: 1,392	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. No, Ill have the ignition from the MSM

08-26-2010, 08:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
saedrin Function > Form Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago - North Shore Posts: 1,302	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Please, don't do that. Use the OEM NA ignition, the NA harness, and run a standalone. It's the easiest way. The OEM MSM ecu is garbage and you'd have to swap the entire wiring harnesses to use it, which is a pain in the ass. Unless you're saying you're using the MSM coils with a standalone, in which case it's fine.
	__________________ -Zack Turbo'd/r-comp'd NB1. Build Thread E39 M5, Daily. The Beast

08-26-2010, 08:43 PM	#24 (permalink)
91Miata23 Supporting Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Morgan City, Louisiana Posts: 1,392	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Ok, Ill explain again. Basically I have a full MSM with a wrecked rear end and EVERYTHING is still intact. all i have to do is switch it ALL over to the na

08-26-2010, 09:03 PM	#25 (permalink)
saedrin Function > Form Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago - North Shore Posts: 1,302	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. Right, I'm telling you the OEM MSM ecu is a pile of shit. In order to use the OEM ecu, you'd have to switch the entire wiring harness over (immobilizer, engine sensors, ignition, etc). It's much easier, and better in the long run, to run a megasquirt. They're cheap, you don't have to swap any harness over, many people can tune them, and you'll never be hindered by lean-tip in, TPS problems, crappy running conditions, etc like you will with the OEM MSM. There is a reason it is highly recommended to replace the MSM ecu.
	__________________ -Zack Turbo'd/r-comp'd NB1. Build Thread E39 M5, Daily. The Beast

08-26-2010, 09:43 PM	#26 (permalink)
91Miata23 Supporting Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Morgan City, Louisiana Posts: 1,392	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. But, I do plan on doing the full harness conversion. So i can tuck some wires blah blah. And thanks for the heads up on the MS

08-28-2010, 01:46 PM	#27 (permalink)
MSMjohn Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 115	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. To go through all that trouble for a MSM engine stock is not worth it. The MSM needs to be modified to be worth it but when you begin to mod it you begin to run into a bunch of problems.
	__________________ 2004 Mazdaspeed mx5 \| stock temperature gauge linearization mod \| FM intake \| FM downpipe \| manual boost controller \| Porterfield R4S brake pads \| Filtermag: oil filter magnet \| Stewart Warner 0-15 psi boost gauge: pillar mounted \| Devils Own progressive water methanol injection kit @ 14.5 lbs boost \| Dunlop DIREZZA SPORT Z1 star spec tires 215/40/17 treadwear 200

08-28-2010, 02:31 PM	#28 (permalink)
Migit109 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gilbert,AZ Posts: 883	Re: MSM engine in 91 NA, I Have questions. from what i can tell making 220hp is fine for him and thats just injectors, new intercooler, boost controller, and exhaust right?
	__________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I will fuck the old out of you! Right now, all night long!" -The Incresingly Poor Decisions Of Todd Margaret The Anti-Style Bar Empire - Saving Lives since 2010

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