ClubRoadster.net banner

My Stewart Development Shock/Damper Review - Part I

5K views 39 replies 10 participants last post by  BMWidmer 
#1 ·
First of all, I wanted to thank Bernie and especially John Mueller for making this come together for me.

Second of all, I do not feel like posting my shock dyno plots (I want to see how I do at autocross and track days) and if you want to see dyno plots, get your own custom valved dampers.

So here we go:
After 3 long hours I installed them today using the long-bolt method. The 3 hours included set-up time, labor and 45 minute test drive.

Installation:
No problems, hardware came off easy due to anti-seize I used when installing the FCM top Hat kit. Everything went smooth. I removed the front splash shield and the RB Anti-Sway blocks so I could slide the bolts forward. I have AC and PS so I needed room to slide the bolts forward. I think I only used 12, 14, 17, 19 and 21mm sockets and wrenches, all 6 point. A snap-on 3/4 inch flex head ratchet combined with an open end 21 dispatched the nuts and long bolts. Everything else was easy but time consuming. Torque speq checks from the Mazda manual are included in this total task time. Cleaning and other steps are also included. 9:30-12:30 with only a 15 minute break for cigarette and coffee after finishing the rears.

Setup:
Spec Miata suspension: 700# front springs and 325# rear springs. Spec Miata front and rear bars. For Autocross I have tried the rear bar off, disconnected or replaced with stock and it works in tuning out oversteer on certain courses.

Test Drive-Typical Crappy Roads:
The handling is unreal! Yes, unreal! Awesome! Not daily driver awesome, but handling awesome! Any ripples on the road less than 1" are dispatched with ease. The rebound damping is unreal. The car just comes back down and there is no drama. Certain high speed turns (50-70 mph) with broken pavement mid-turn are now very confidence inspiring. The car refuses to jack down. The car refuses to skitter. During a concrete section of overpass some 3 miles long where I get strong wash-boarding on my moto, this car is just composed. When the pavement is rough and I put my foot in it she just goes forward with confidence and no drama and no loss of grip. If I jump on the brakes on rough pavement, the tires just stick and the dampers handle the imperfections with ease. During large high speed transitions, the car is balanced left to right and quick to turn in and quick to roll out. Much quicker than before. This is with 205-50 Bridgestone RE-11s on 15x7 Team Dynamics with 30 offset.

2nd Test Drive-Mountain Roads:
Same conclusions as before: when stepping on it, the car just goes no matter how rough the pavement is even in a turn. Mountain roads, with smooth pavement and the car just rolls a bit and grips like crazy. The transitions from left to right are smooth, well controlled and very fast. Mountain roads with snakes and ripples do not unsettle the dampers even at speeds 10-15 mph faster than before.

Broken up roads:
Do not get this suspension set-up if you are looking for comfort on crap roads as this is not a Rally set-up. I was not. My DGF found the SM package comfy while I thought it was somewhat punishing at times. This is much better because these re-valved dampers do a better job of eliminating the small stuff. I found myself taking the outer lane in high-speed turns and purposely driving through the drain covers yet the dampers handled it without any issues unlike before where I would avoid the dips. Manhole covers whether raised or dipped could not unsettle the car either at similar speeds.

What's Next?
I want to test these in the wet and at an autocross as well as a track day or two. I will post the results. I just wish I had the money to get 3-5 set-ups from Bernie for various conditions. I also wish I had a garage where I could do suspension swaps whenever I felt like it.

Summary:
For a non-adjustable suspension (except for ride-height) this is awesome. Bang for the buck, it is impossible to beat. I keep futzing around with my Moto settings (high and low speed compression and rebound adjustments) to no avail. They never match my driving. I bet that for track work, backed up by a data-logger one could optimize settings on multi-adjustable dampers but in my experience, those feature just do not work well on the street unless you find a compromise and then set and forget. That being said, I was looking for a re-valve that matched most of my needs and I think I found it.

Thank you Bernie for a great job, and thank you John for cleaning up the backlog and the comm issues. You guys are tops. My money went to the right place. Cheers!

 
See less See more
1
#9 ·
More of My Stewart Development Shock/Damper Review - Part I

No wet weather, so I just did more Daily Driving:
The set up is outstanding! All the small stuff bumps and drops 1-2 inches do not unsettle the car at legal speeds. At all! This is good enough that I would recommend as a Daily Driver set-up. Remember that I run 700# springs up front so a lot of energy gets stored and released. These shocks are doing a great job of dealing with the bumps and they do not shock the tires which is exactly what I was looking for.
At low speeds, they are on par and sometimes better, albeit sometimes worse than my stock Mazda2 OEM set-up. If the potholes or bumps are severe, the Mazda2 absorbs them better but the chassis gets unsettled as it bucks over the terrible roads.

Today I did a 2 hour road-test in mixed conditions (traffic-wise and road condition-wise) and my opinion did not change. The car is very composed, easy to control and I continue to love high speed turns over less than perfect pavement. The suspension is composed, compliant and yet very communicative. The quarter I ran over is tails-up!

My DGF drove the car Saturday over 100 miles and came back with these comments: Much better than before, smoother, more comfortable, car felt faster, easier to slice through traffic, more confidence inspiring braking over broken asphalt, less busy, easier to drive. She'll be driving the car to work over the next 2-3 weeks every day, so we should be collecting some 1,000 miles on this set-up.

I have a track day at the end of the month and hopefully will get some wet weather wheel time before then.

Hope you like this kind of feedback and post questions if you have any.
 
#13 ·
Unless something's changed, Bernie will do a personal consultation with you and valve the shocks to your application. He'll ask you what you're doing with them, the rates and height you're running, and your balance preference.

With the disclaimer that I've only installed (and removed to diddle with the setup) the rears, my particular valving was a bit rough on the street, particularly in high speed rebound, but stuck quite well. I told Bernie I was willing to sacrifice some ride quality in favor of performance, so mine is a "jack of all trades, master of none" compromise.
 
#14 ·
I've read nothing but good things about these shocks performance.

Have the issues with the company been resolved yet? ~6 months for shocks is a long time. I would need some new positive feedback before an attempt to do business with them.
 
#18 ·
Cabbs,

Personal consultation here. I told Bernie that I was interested in high speed performance on a bumpy track. I also told him that I do not intend to fight for my life if I kerb/curb the car in the rain (track-wise). I also Autocross and 2 of the lots used locally are about as bad as you can imagine as they were last paved some 30 years ago or at least that is how bad they look.

I did not want to shock the tires at initial impact and this what I got. I will do a second set once I decide which direction to take with the car set-up. I ordered my set-up with new shocks which is why I did not loose my mind when Bernie got too busy for our whiny/cheap/custom set-ups. So now I have my SM shocks waiting for a decision and some money. They are going back to Bernie.
 
#21 ·
Do you know how much total travel you have? And if you are as meticulous as I'd hope, how much bump and droop travel?
 
#22 · (Edited)
SM Suspension with SM numbers.
No modified shocks here except for the re-valve.

My numbers are no different than any spec miata racers out there.
Alignment due in 1-2 weeks and I will post numbers if you wish.

Ride height is 1/2"-1" above what what most SM cars run and cross weights are 49.6% with A/C and P/S and factory interior.

And my 190# a$$ in the seat.
 
#25 · (Edited)
You can jack the car, ziptie the shock shaft at the lowest exposed point, lower it back to static, then jack it up again and measure the droop travel from the ziptie's movement. You can see if you're using your bump travel with the same ziptie trick, just drive it around.

Oh, if you have manufacturer info on your springs' block height, you can just measure the shaft above the ziptie measuring static height and compare against the block height to see if you'll get coil bind or hit the bumpstops.
 
#26 ·
You can jack the car, ziptie the shock shaft at the lowest exposed point, lower it back to static, then jack it up again and measure the droop travel from the ziptie's movement. You can see if you're using your bump travel with the same ziptie trick, just drive it around.
You are loosing me. How do I measure bump with zip-tie? Won't rebound move the zip-tie away on the shaft away from the main shock body?
 
#31 ·
I have the SM NB top hats/FM bumps on my NA and my ride height numbers are quite high as this is still a daily driver (mostly). I can't get my hands on the exact numbers yet, but I will post as soon as I measure bump and droop, maybe this weekend.
 
#33 ·
Not this weekend, and maybe not the next one either and the one after is out.
My DGF carjacked the Miata as her DD. She loves the suspension and the car in general. Yes, the Miata is a chick car. My chick's car. I slave over it and my DGF jacks my ride. OK!

This weekend I had some GPNY go-kart races to contend with. I got my ass handed to me on the uptown track on Saturday. On Sunday my 11 yo niece wiped the floor with the competition. G.J. Dixon the famous Scarsdale autocrosser and all around Corvette master driver laid down some impressive lap times, My niece, was lapping her pack twice in one race and once in her last. So much fun to watch! And the little bugger sat on the back seat of my Mazda 2 to watch me shift, heel-and-toe, and drive in general, both ways (from her house and back). Unnerving to be judged by an 11 Y.O. but hey, that is life. I asked her to spend more time watching "Going Faster" and reading "Going Faster" which I got her for her birthday. Next week she will be doing a one week advanced camp and then I will no longer ever stand a chance of ever beating her. End of a chapter in our lives.

When she gets older and she gets a better grasp of the physics involved, we can discuss my SD dampers and what makes them so good. By then I will have Bernie re-valve some Billies for the Mazda 2. My niece thinks that she will get the/my/a Miata as her first car. We'll see.

I also learned this past weekend, while helping a friend, that his Ford Escort has front calipers that look like a race set-up with 2 sliders cotter-pinned which require finger pulling of the pins, removal of said sliders and swapping the pads without any tools. Cool stuff.

The whole point with my 11 Y.O niece is that in exchange for better grades and less attitude, I will support a hobby that helps improve self-confidence and controlled aggression, which she will benefit from in her life and career.

Meantime my SD's continue to be pounded on by my DGF on her 70 mile R/T commute on some rough roads. We have not had any rain and my next track day is at the end of the month when I will post an update. Meantime, weekends will be spent camping and doing summer type things.

Cheers!
 
#34 ·
UPDATE!

Finished the season and decided to try something different. I talked to Bernie about a different set-up with 450/275 springs vs. the 700/325.

I also had experienced delays (like most here) so I said -----it! I'm going down there and meet the man behind the hoopla (quality-wise not business-wise).

The dude is only 600 miles away, a day's drive from my pad. Let's set a date and do this. Done. The weather was predicted to be nice, so it was done. Found a cheap hotel that did not rent by the hour and started the trip. Drove out Thursday and returned Saturday.

Why?
Well besides the obvious (loose nut somewhere), when I was a kid, I would ride my bike cross-town to meet my friends and get into mischief. I wanted to see the man behind this wonderful product that one can get in 2 weeks or 6 months (depends on how the planets align). Some folks are better at running a business than others, and the chatter here left me un-clear about some details. I wanted to understand what farnorthracing.com was talking about. I wanted to experience this from a builder not in a short phone-call, but by actually going through the ins and outs. The secrets I learned will stay with me for the most part. Some I will share if they benefit you and not hurt Bernie. So what better way to accomplish this than a face-to-face? And a handshake?

Trip Summary:

Day 1
10 1/2 hours later I arrive in High Point, NC home of SD;
Stopped by the shop first where I met Bernie and Britney, both nice folks;
Did a quick tour and headed out for the hotel (I was beat) as I was eager to get out of my smelly Mazda 2;

Day 2
Met Bernie and started going over the details: Bilstein vs Penske (he does both); His background; Why the delays; What goes wrong; Secrets of Bernie vs. Others; Customer Priority;
At lunch we headed over to Petty's Garage; Met a bunch of great folks there also: John Hayworth (sells and re-builds Brembo as well as other brakes) and a few other characters. We ended up a few hours there after which we stopped to pick up some take-out (no time to sit) and headed back to work on more shocks;
We spent 4-4 1/2 hours rebuilding my shocks; Yes it took that long, and Bernie is ------- quick: he knows what he is doing. He ended up dyno-ing and re-building one of the shocks about 5 times over until it came out perfect (in case you noobs wonder how he gets them matched so well). This is why he can do better financially if he can batch them and do 40 sets in a good week. I saw a whole bunch of used shocks that customers sent in for re-valves and was amazed by the amount of damage on the parts. I asked him how he can make money by replacing so much ----. He smiled because I now understood. He tries to get for free or buy for cheap donor shocks. He said that if he did not do this, folks would just buy new and live with them. Then I understood why other folks in this business need to sell features. I mean, why pay Bernie 300-1000 for a rebuilt when you can buy new for 450-1,000? So unless you want that special magic, there is no business case here. He does get business from customers that win races with his product and those take priority. Re-valving a set of new shocks is better than used. Re-valving Penskes is easier than Bilsteins (you get what you pay for). Bernie uses some custom tooling to allow him to get to the precision he gets.
So, we chatted some about other issues and opportunities, I grabbed my secret shocks and split.

Day 3
I think I drove home. I detoured over some really nice NC, VA side roads and the BRP and Skyline Drive and 340 and somehow I found myself home holding a nice Brown beer some 13 1/2 hours later.

Secret Tip: How do you go faster in a Mazda 2? Do not slow down for the turns!

Install to be done in the next few weeks (I am waiting for another set from Bernie). Results will be posted. I will also update my other thread and share thoughts after one season I completed on his first dampers/shocks.

PS. I am exploring some mild rally set-ups. Also track only.
 
#38 ·
I am thinking of developing a suspension package for you low-riders that works. It will not be cheap nor expensive. Probably about 1500 for a track-worthy package of coil-overs with lowered ride heights. Something that will make you drool.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top