Day Traders Unite!

GGClobster · 05-03-2012, 04:16 PM

Ok I'm not really a day trader. I'm just a 23 year old starting out in stock trading to learn and get some experience on how things work. I'm honestly not even expecting to make much money out of it for my first few months, because from how I see it, the amount of money lost will count as self-taught tuition.

Any day traders here have advice for newbs and recommend any books or resources that can help me and other newbs navigate through this simple yet complex field?

My friend actually recommended me to get started in this to battle inflation [letting your money sit in a savings account is pretty much letting your money depreciate he says] and just to expand my mind. I've never liked reading news, but now, it interests me.

Plus, figure if I can make money while at my day job, why not?

brontosaurus · 05-03-2012, 04:36 PM

I trade small-cap biotechs almost exclusively with a target of 30-50% gains per year. Not much I can really say in short save that if you don't have rules and goals that you stick by, you'll be poor pretty quick. Day trading a small amount of money is stupid, don't do it. Thinking of money lost as "tuition" isn't very smart either. Find a system that works for you, test it, then put your skin into it.

That and I'd be nearly all cash right now unless I had a really good reason not to.

GGClobster · 05-03-2012, 05:59 PM

I totally agree with the mindset of losing money at beginning is stupid, but I'm just getting my feet wet and I know I'm bound to make some mistakes and lose a little. I guess like you said, I'm going to try to find what works for me with a relatively small amount before putting 4x that in to go serious with it.

freshbuzz · 05-03-2012, 06:19 PM

I'd learn the fundamentals of derivatives first; forwards, swaps, options, etc and the payoff from each strategy and each type of asset you can trade (commodities, exchange rates, interest, equity, etc). Pick what you want to trade and learn everything about it. Keep things in perspective and think in percentages, not total dollar amount - a 10% gain (Madoff's ponzie scheme delivered around 10% gains annually) is $10 on $100 investment. Don't forget to factor in trader fees.

edit: if you're truly going to be doing day trading by definition (which I doubt), then look into getting direct access and skip the broker.

sfl_miata · 05-03-2012, 06:36 PM

Day trading is basically speculating. Especially if you are starting with small amounts of money say a few thousand and buying and selling every other day. Also take into account broker fees, which can really hurt the small gains you could possibly make in the short term. Like freshbuzz said try to pick what kind of security you want to trade and then do research on that. Another important thing that many new comers forget is to diversify. Although this can be very difficult to do if you don't have lots of money put in.

Being new to this and starting off isn't an excuse to throw away money. Sure you are losing money everyday by keeping it in a savings account, but you can lose 100 times more in one day in the market.

Timr · 05-03-2012, 08:23 PM

Options are a pretty safe way to play the game..

What is your day job if you dont mind me asking

sfl_miata · 05-03-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

Options are a pretty safe way to play the game..

Not sure if I agree with this. Options are really "supposed" to be used to hedge your existing securities. It's really used as an insurance policy. Although what is cool about options is that you know the maximum that you are going to lose while you can make an infinite amount of money. I just think that you are truly speculating day trading options. Especially nowadays when the market is extremely volatile.

freshbuzz · 05-03-2012, 11:59 PM

Options are pretty cool, you can create some nifty strategies using them. I once created an excel model that would graph the payoff of an up to 10 asset portfolio. You could input the price of the security, strike price, and select long/short/put/call and it would automatically graph the portfolio payoff (or you had the option to see any of the underlying assets as well). I'm upset I lost the file when my hard drive decided to shit the bed, I got some good mileage out of that model at school.

GGClobster · 05-04-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshbuzz

I'd learn the fundamentals of derivatives first; forwards, swaps, options, etc and the payoff from each strategy and each type of asset you can trade (commodities, exchange rates, interest, equity, etc). Pick what you want to trade and learn everything about it. Keep things in perspective and think in percentages, not total dollar amount - a 10% gain (Madoff's ponzie scheme delivered around 10% gains annually) is $10 on $100 investment. Don't forget to factor in trader fees.

edit: if you're truly going to be doing day trading by definition (which I doubt), then look into getting direct access and skip the broker.

Well I'm nowhere near going hardcore with it yet because i'm still trying to get the basics down lol
Do you have books for me to read on strategies and basic knowledge?
As of now, I'm looking to gain and loose in increments of like $40 after broker fees because of the amount I'm dealing with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

Options are a pretty safe way to play the game..

What is your day job if you dont mind me asking

I'll look more into options now lol.
I'm an accountant/software manager at a freight forwarding company. It's pretty freakin boring, especially since I'm an marketing major and am looking for a job in the creative field.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfl_miata

Day trading is basically speculating. Especially if you are starting with small amounts of money say a few thousand and buying and selling every other day. Also take into account broker fees, which can really hurt the small gains you could possibly make in the short term. Like freshbuzz said try to pick what kind of security you want to trade and then do research on that. Another important thing that many new comers forget is to diversify. Although this can be very difficult to do if you don't have lots of money put in.

Being new to this and starting off isn't an excuse to throw away money. Sure you are losing money everyday by keeping it in a savings account, but you can lose 100 times more in one day in the market.

Yea as of now, I'm going to try to go into 2 stocks at a time. I mean there seems to be mixed thoughts on diversifying and being strong in a few stocks, so you can follow them in detail. I guess it has to do with how hardcore you are with day trading and how much time you put into reading the news a day.

I mean in summary, I'm still a newb, so any criticism/friendly advice is definitely welcome.

Timr · 05-04-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGClobster

I'll look more into options now lol.
I'm an accountant/software manager at a freight forwarding company. It's pretty freakin boring, especially since I'm an marketing major and am looking for a job in the creative field.

www.optionmonster.com

Check that out

And as for two stocks today spread your money out you don't wanna invest all in one thing..

Is it just me or is it hard to find a job in the creative field in NYC even though the mecca of that job name, a lot of competition.

GGClobster · 05-04-2012, 11:03 AM

Thanks for that website! I'm going to browse through that when I have free time. Do you trade options regularly?

I think Cali is more of a creative mecca then NYC, but yea it's been pretty hard to find a job in that field. It's super competitive because there's so many people who majored in marketing (I went into it because it's so easy and I'm actually interested in it. I also minored in I/O Psy because I find psychology REALLY interesting too)

Timr · 05-04-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGClobster

Thanks for that website! I'm going to browse through that when I have free time. Do you trade options regularly?

I think Cali is more of a creative mecca then NYC, but yea it's been pretty hard to find a job in that field. It's super competitive because there's so many people who majored in marketing (I went into it because it's so easy and I'm actually interested in it. I also minored in I/O Psy because I find psychology REALLY interesting too)

I personally don't trade yet but had a very experienced trader sit down and explain the concepts of options. (Makes 6 figs just day trading per 4hrs a day)
I occasionally fool with the virtual stock market for fun. I honestly don't have the extra money right now to make enough doing it.

Yea I've been looking for photo job a lot of it is networking I've learned, and even then the competition is very stiff.

GGClobster · 05-04-2012, 01:36 PM

Lol photography is ALL networking. I've been doing all for hobby, and wanted to take it further, but it seems a bit bullshit because of the low rates from people who justed start out with their brand new dSLR's are charging.
And to be honest, most people would rather pay 1/4 the price of a professional because a picture is a picture to them.

Anyways, I've just been entertaining the thought of playing with stocks because I've been working for 2 years out of college, and saved up a good amount, so I figured this might be a good way of making money if I get the hang of it and get good at it.
If not, it's just another one of my business ventures that I tried and just didn't work. Live life without regrets, you know?

Timr · 05-04-2012, 03:18 PM

Heard that, thats pretty much what it is for me at one point it was a job in a big name studio.
Moved to go to school, yeup that was a mistake. I'd kill to have that job back, if only the location was as desirable. I understand what you're saying 120%

Live with no regrets, truth be told its def a great exciting way to make some extra money. I will be majorly involved some day.

GGClobster · 05-04-2012, 04:27 PM

Yea my friend is teaching me about day trading because he recently got laid off, but has been playing stocks for years. He's been teaching me some things he's learned and telling me all the mistakes he's made lol
He's making a good amount on top of unemployment which makes me a bit jealous haha

But of course, I know it's a really risky field, which brings me back to reality that I won't be making money. As a matter of fact, I'm down $100 these 2 days in hopes my stocks will have to bounce back next week. It's a learning experience and I have much more to learn and develop.

I guess there aren't much Miata guys on here that are actually day traders?

freshbuzz · 05-04-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGClobster

Yea my friend is teaching me about day trading because he recently got laid off, but has been playing stocks for years. He's been teaching me some things he's learned and telling me all the mistakes he's made lol
He's making a good amount on top of unemployment which makes me a bit jealous haha

But of course, I know it's a really risky field, which brings me back to reality that I won't be making money. As a matter of fact, I'm down $100 these 2 days in hopes my stocks will have to bounce back next week. It's a learning experience and I have much more to learn and develop.

I guess there aren't much Miata guys on here that are actually day traders?

You should have gone short today.

The demographic of CR doesn't lend itself to day trading. I would be surprised if people know the difference between the S&P/Dow/Nasdaq on here. I highly doubt what you're doing can be considered day trading, so stop calling it that

Timr · 05-04-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshbuzz

The demographic of CR doesn't lend itself to day trading.

This

And I forgot to email you man Ill get on that eventually lol

brontosaurus · 05-04-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

Options are a pretty safe way to play the game..

Ahhahahahahha

Friday · 05-04-2012, 06:00 PM

Can you guys beat the index?

freshbuzz · 05-04-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGClobster

strategies and basic knowledge?

There's one called scalping, where you buy/sell as soon as the security becomes profitable and fading, where you short a security after it rapidy moves upward in price. Simplified, day trading is literally just buying and selling based on daily/hourly/minutely price volatility.

Timr · 05-04-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brontosaurus

Ahhahahahahha

ahahahhahahhaha. That.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshbuzz

Options are pretty cool, you can create some nifty strategies using them. I once created an excel model that would graph the payoff of an up to 10 asset portfolio. You could input the price of the security, strike price, and select long/short/put/call and it would automatically graph the portfolio payoff (or you had the option to see any of the underlying assets as well). I'm upset I lost the file when my hard drive decided to shit the bed, I got some good mileage out of that model at school.

jdmcwestevo · 05-04-2012, 06:27 PM

i am doing it now and doing well, but let me tell you i had a few expensive lessons when i started. Best advice i can give is don't get greedy lol. Don't get attached to a position either if it is dead its dead don't try to justify a loss just sell and buy back lower if you really like it and believe in it. You aren't the captain no reason to go down with the ship haha

brontosaurus · 05-04-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

ahahahhahahhaha. That.

Great, I'm getting lip from someone who has never executed an order.

I don't say this very often on this forum, but you're fucking dumb. If you think that buying and selling options is safer (read: less volatile or risky) than holding equities, then by all means, please go ahead and do just that. There's a good reason why the book on my shelf labeled "The Bible of Options Strategies" is 400 pages and there's zero fluff to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGClobster

Yea my friend is teaching me about day trading because he recently got laid off, but has been playing stocks for years. He's been teaching me some things he's learned and telling me all the mistakes he's made lol
He's making a good amount on top of unemployment which makes me a bit jealous haha

But of course, I know it's a really risky field, which brings me back to reality that I won't be making money. As a matter of fact, I'm down $100 these 2 days in hopes my stocks will have to bounce back next week. It's a learning experience and I have much more to learn and develop.

I guess there aren't much Miata guys on here that are actually day traders?

You're not a day trader.

Occasionally I'll skip in and out of something in a day, but I hold most of my trades for a couple days to a month or two at most. Played ALXA OTO today since I had some settled cash sitting around. 30,000 shares from 0.41 to 0.47x, made a couple bucks. I'll probably wait for it to settle then buy back in. My only other holding is 3000 shares of AIS from 1.80 from after the day BPAX got rejected.

freshbuzz · 05-04-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timr

ahahahhahahhaha. That.

I created that file mainly to avoid doing homework and it probably had minimal practicality outside academia

Timr · 05-04-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brontosaurus

Great, I'm getting lip from someone who has never executed an order.

I don't say this very often on this forum, but you're fucking dumb. If you think that buying and selling options is safer (read: less volatile or risky) than holding equities, then by all means, please go ahead and do just that. There's a good reason why the book on my shelf labeled "The Bible of Options Strategies" is 400 pages and there's zero fluff to it.

You're not a day trader.

Occasionally I'll skip in and out of something in a day, but I hold most of my trades for a couple days to a month or two at most. Played ALXA OTO today since I had some settled cash sitting around. 30,000 shares from 0.41 to 0.47x, made a couple bucks. I'll probably wait for it to settle then buy back in. My only other holding is 3000 shares of AIS from 1.80 from after the day BPAX got rejected.

I don't place orders now, I never said I haven't before. Testing waters apparently there are a few traders on here

I guess I safe wasn't the best word to describe it.

GGClobster · 05-04-2012, 09:38 PM

I don't know if you guys read the first sentence in the original post, but yea i'm not a day trader. I pretty much put that title up so that I can get the attention of actual day traders or just people ywho trade for fun. Sorry for misleading you guys... I'm just used to doing that with the ladies

I guess I wanted to hear people's experiences with trading and advice.

I should have shorted mad stocks these two days lol
One of the few that would have been great for day traders these few days was Papa John's and Whole Foods from what I see.

Ron-PC · 05-28-2012, 07:14 PM

Sorry for bring this back to life.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (true definition)

Day trading refers to the practice of buying and selling financial instruments within the same trading day such that all positions are usually closed before the market close for the trading day. Traders who participate in day trading are called active traders or day traders......
I'm sure you are aware but....There is no ceiling on how much you can lose selling uncovered short positions. Sooner or later you will have to buy the product back.
Selling short covered is a good way to sell your position (if you are think your stock is going down) if the stock goes down you can always buy it back to cover. If it goes up use your covered position to flatten your account. FWIW, most buy options are never exercised (out of the money).

Flame on if you don't agree.

05-03-2012, 04:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Day Traders Unite! Ok I'm not really a day trader. I'm just a 23 year old starting out in stock trading to learn and get some experience on how things work. I'm honestly not even expecting to make much money out of it for my first few months, because from how I see it, the amount of money lost will count as self-taught tuition. Any day traders here have advice for newbs and recommend any books or resources that can help me and other newbs navigate through this simple yet complex field? My friend actually recommended me to get started in this to battle inflation [letting your money sit in a savings account is pretty much letting your money depreciate he says] and just to expand my mind. I've never liked reading news, but now, it interests me. Plus, figure if I can make money while at my day job, why not?
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-03-2012, 05:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Re: Day Traders Unite! I totally agree with the mindset of losing money at beginning is stupid, but I'm just getting my feet wet and I know I'm bound to make some mistakes and lose a little. I guess like you said, I'm going to try to find what works for me with a relatively small amount before putting 4x that in to go serious with it.
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-03-2012, 06:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
freshbuzz Waka Waka Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,075	Re: Day Traders Unite! I'd learn the fundamentals of derivatives first; forwards, swaps, options, etc and the payoff from each strategy and each type of asset you can trade (commodities, exchange rates, interest, equity, etc). Pick what you want to trade and learn everything about it. Keep things in perspective and think in percentages, not total dollar amount - a 10% gain (Madoff's ponzie scheme delivered around 10% gains annually) is $10 on $100 investment. Don't forget to factor in trader fees. edit: if you're truly going to be doing day trading by definition (which I doubt), then look into getting direct access and skip the broker.
	Last edited by freshbuzz; 05-03-2012 at 06:37 PM.

05-03-2012, 06:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
sfl_miata Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Miami Posts: 777	Re: Day Traders Unite! Day trading is basically speculating. Especially if you are starting with small amounts of money say a few thousand and buying and selling every other day. Also take into account broker fees, which can really hurt the small gains you could possibly make in the short term. Like freshbuzz said try to pick what kind of security you want to trade and then do research on that. Another important thing that many new comers forget is to diversify. Although this can be very difficult to do if you don't have lots of money put in. Being new to this and starting off isn't an excuse to throw away money. Sure you are losing money everyday by keeping it in a savings account, but you can lose 100 times more in one day in the market.

05-03-2012, 11:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
freshbuzz Waka Waka Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 1,075	Re: Day Traders Unite! Options are pretty cool, you can create some nifty strategies using them. I once created an excel model that would graph the payoff of an up to 10 asset portfolio. You could input the price of the security, strike price, and select long/short/put/call and it would automatically graph the portfolio payoff (or you had the option to see any of the underlying assets as well). I'm upset I lost the file when my hard drive decided to shit the bed, I got some good mileage out of that model at school.

05-04-2012, 11:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Re: Day Traders Unite! Thanks for that website! I'm going to browse through that when I have free time. Do you trade options regularly? I think Cali is more of a creative mecca then NYC, but yea it's been pretty hard to find a job in that field. It's super competitive because there's so many people who majored in marketing (I went into it because it's so easy and I'm actually interested in it. I also minored in I/O Psy because I find psychology REALLY interesting too)
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-04-2012, 01:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Re: Day Traders Unite! Lol photography is ALL networking. I've been doing all for hobby, and wanted to take it further, but it seems a bit bullshit because of the low rates from people who justed start out with their brand new dSLR's are charging. And to be honest, most people would rather pay 1/4 the price of a professional because a picture is a picture to them. Anyways, I've just been entertaining the thought of playing with stocks because I've been working for 2 years out of college, and saved up a good amount, so I figured this might be a good way of making money if I get the hang of it and get good at it. If not, it's just another one of my business ventures that I tried and just didn't work. Live life without regrets, you know?
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-04-2012, 04:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Re: Day Traders Unite! Yea my friend is teaching me about day trading because he recently got laid off, but has been playing stocks for years. He's been teaching me some things he's learned and telling me all the mistakes he's made lol He's making a good amount on top of unemployment which makes me a bit jealous haha But of course, I know it's a really risky field, which brings me back to reality that I won't be making money. As a matter of fact, I'm down $100 these 2 days in hopes my stocks will have to bounce back next week. It's a learning experience and I have much more to learn and develop. I guess there aren't much Miata guys on here that are actually day traders?
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-04-2012, 06:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
jdmcwestevo Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 127	Re: Day Traders Unite! i am doing it now and doing well, but let me tell you i had a few expensive lessons when i started. Best advice i can give is don't get greedy lol. Don't get attached to a position either if it is dead its dead don't try to justify a loss just sell and buy back lower if you really like it and believe in it. You aren't the captain no reason to go down with the ship haha
jdmcwestevo Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 127

05-04-2012, 09:38 PM	#26 (permalink)
GGClobster Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: New York, NY Posts: 313	Re: Day Traders Unite! I don't know if you guys read the first sentence in the original post, but yea i'm not a day trader. I pretty much put that title up so that I can get the attention of actual day traders or just people ywho trade for fun. Sorry for misleading you guys... I'm just used to doing that with the ladies I guess I wanted to hear people's experiences with trading and advice. I should have shorted mad stocks these two days lol One of the few that would have been great for day traders these few days was Papa John's and Whole Foods from what I see.
	__________________ GGC\|grocerygettercrew // www.grocerygettercrew.com CWong Photography find me @ www.facebook.com/CWONGPHOTOGRAPHY 1999 Miata \| MIKA \| Rokkor Coilovers \| 16x7 Prodrive GC-5A

05-28-2012, 07:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
Ron-PC Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Palm Coast, Fl Posts: 150	Re: Day Traders Unite! Sorry for bring this back to life. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (true definition) Day trading refers to the practice of buying and selling financial instruments within the same trading day such that all positions are usually closed before the market close for the trading day. Traders who participate in day trading are called active traders or day traders...... I'm sure you are aware but....There is no ceiling on how much you can lose selling uncovered short positions. Sooner or later you will have to buy the product back. Selling short covered is a good way to sell your position (if you are think your stock is going down) if the stock goes down you can always buy it back to cover. If it goes up use your covered position to flatten your account. FWIW, most buy options are never exercised (out of the money). Flame on if you don't agree.
	__________________ '99 Classic Red 12/97 #380 Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive -Robert M. Pirsig Last edited by Ron-PC; 05-28-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: addl info

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode