greenmx5

Simple enough question. I have grown to love this forum, but I have noticed that 99% of the people on here own NA's. Is it even possible to put ITB's on a 99'? Any pictures or information on builds would be helpful.

freedomgli

It is most certainly possible but the reason most people don't has to do with cost and emissions compliance. Check out Quinn's build for ITBs on a NB.

Quinn's NB Thread **ITB Content**

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dontpassthefence

Id say its entirely possible on an NB1, but the NB2 with the herpderp ECU and VVT would be ass. I think I know of 2 guys that figured out how to control the VVT with MS, not emissions compliant in the least though

Bobthewisemonkey

I'm currently planning/ starting on my 99 NB build (bought the car with almost nothing to it, no drivetrain except a block with pistions and crank) and am planning on running ITBs. I dont see why it wont work out.

FooSchnickens

Biggest reason is management. Your best bet would be to use a 99-00 and piggyback a MS onto the stock ECU to keep your OBDII functions.

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Maikeru

This. Unless it's going to be a track car, ITBs will be a pain cause you will not pass emissions. If you don't pass emissions, you won't be able to drive your car legally.

urban

its management. your best bet is the Adaptronics.
Quinn is on the right track.

unless you have a track car or do not live in CA.
in 2001 i remember feasting my eyes on Bill Schenkers 10ae fully built with itbs , and a Tec2. he, ofcourse is a nationally competitive CSP driver

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DrftSpec

makes me so happy im in michigan i dont have to worry about none of that emissions control

my97miata

Buy the IRTB from FujiRacing and the Adaptronic ECU from Boundary Engineering to control a VVT head, sounds like a plan to me.
IRTB - $1700
ECU - $950
VVT head- $500 from Flyinmiata.

greenmx5

In WA they only check to see if there are any CEL or anything registered in the obd2 or w/e. With a standalone system cant you just trick the emissions check? I was able to do that with my stock wrx ecu even.

FooSchnickens

Depends on the aftermarket ECU you get. Some do, most don't.

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Scigano

I've considered the possibility of ITBs in my '03 NB. A clean, Mechanically Tuned engine is a sick thing, and sounds something fierce at top RPMs. Will an aftermarket ECU set-up or a piggyback computer on the Factory ECU throw a CEL? I'd imagine a complete aftermarket ECU wouldn't because the new ECU itself wouldn't consider "itself" out of place.

driftz

look up becks build thread. he is running on a 01 engine with maruha itb's. the freedom ecu is the only one i know of that can control vvt and itbs. and trust me, from being in kens car, the thing hauls ASS

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spike

Philip,you should take a ride in Gwilo's car.....now that thing HAULS ASS!!!

No itb car will ever compare to the power and torque of a turbo car.

BracedEunos

*Sigh*Facepalm* You clearly do not understand the concept of IRTB NA car. Head off to the FI section please.

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spike

Oh I understand the concept of itb's alright,that's why I'm turbo and won't ever consider itb's.

SuperSlow

+1...

Not too impressed by the 'mad throttle response yo' either.

2500 bux into an irtb setup is not anything that will ever be seen on my nb. But some people want the sound instead of any real performance....

Scigano

The advantages of ITBs depend on what venue you use your car in. On the strip, the sling shot pull of a turbo'll reign supreme (theoretically). On a tight road course or highly technical autoX, the turbo may be too laggy, or jump in and out of boost, breaking critical traction. An ITB car can have more consistent, predictable, and comparatively instantaneous response than a turbo (unless you use a smaller, more responsive turbo, but that would limit those high power aspirations). In some cases, the more balanced and composed car is the faster car.

Either way, it's a pro ITB thread. No place for F.I. 'playa-hatin'

13thumper

A supercharger will respond ALMOST,note I said almost,as quick for auto x. There is no spool up time and no problem with emissions. I'll take F/I over ITB for the 1.8 considering the ECU problems.

13thumper

They can remove the air filter and box if sound is their thing :rolleyes:

Scigano

Thumper, I'm a little shocked . I expected better of you, I saw you checking that ITB engine at O v. T last weekend. Let he without parts-envy cast the first stone

From what I can surmise, the only difference between aN NA or NB head and VVT NB head set ups is the use of a different ECU, like the Hydra or Boundary Engineering one. Other than that, all set ups must be tuned - like a boosted set up - after installation to run optimally. The comparatively steady weather here in Florida shouldn't intensify anything either, since adjusting for temperature and the like should be am unlikely issue.

I will concede that without additional NA high performance components, ITBs are little past eye candy, but ill use of components shouldn't reflect poorly on them.

(pretty sweet candy too )

Miatadam

Why does every IRTB thread end up like this.. RIP Jimmy the martyr who was slayne on CR.net for his beliefs.. :rolleyes:

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Scigano

What do you mean by that Miatadam? Who's Jimmy?


I think it's still functioning as a healthy forum of exchange.

wankle

its a tuning issue,itbs scare the average man.they take time and understanding which most people dont have

Scigano

Well, doesn't a blown motor need to be tuned to run optimally too anyway? Is it even more difficult to tune an NA ITB motor than a boosted setup.

I was hitting up UltimateForce for more information on his fabricated ITB setup. He chopped a factory intake manifold to make an adaptor manifold for bike ITBs, then fabricated some runners inbetween. He says the hardware was created for $300. That'd save some coin for a new ECU then getting it synced and tuned.

But I wanted to ask more about what would be necessary to do to build one of these up.

Scigano

Hey guys, the Boubdary engineering ECU? - it costs $996.00 for the plug-and-play Miata set up. But do we need the base mapping of we're running ITBs and must retune it anyways? It's between $700 and $800 w/o it, depending if an '01+ VVT head needs 18in or 78in looms, with or without a 1 Bar map for an naturally aspirated application.

Thanks.

BillSchenker

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but I'll give it anyway, having had IRTBs and now just running an OEM style intake plenum.

IRTBs: look great, not impossible to tune. No, and I repeat, no increase in throttle response. No increase in upper end. Loss of lower end. All the previous when comparing a car that has a well developed "snorkle", intake, engine build, headers, exhaust, and tune.

I know people have reported gains in upper end, gains in throttle response. But, did they compare IRTBs w/a well tuned oem style plenum?

Now, a caveat here. I only know/do solo w/my car. That's all I know or do. No track, no drag, no drivin' through the twisties. But when it comes to Solo, and my car, I do know something and have tried a lot of things.

This is NOT a slam on IRTBs, I think they look great, but in terms of performance, vis-a-vis Solo (autocross)? Not as good as something with a plenum. I might change my mind about that if I had a really big R&D budget, but w/o one, I'll stick w/a version of something with a plenum.

Peace.

Miatadam

Given that would you say that IRTB's look better, sound better, and perform better (hp and throttle response) over a STOCK manifold?

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Max_Power

I believe that all of these people that spent $$$$ in IRTBs - they wouldn't if they had go for a ride in a turbocharged miata (with a proper size turbo)...

Honestly spending all of these money and doing all of this effort for minimum or no gains over stock is something hard to justify only for the rarity of the IRTBs.

I remember 3 years ago when I had organized a miata Dyno day (at Dynoextreme) the one and and only miata with IRTBs had way less HP than anything else out there (I think it was 97whp or something similar two digit number)...

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Chris
Autokonexion Kevlar bumper and fenders 2096lbs
FM 2.0L Stroker+GT2560+V-mount+1000cc ID+E85+22psi->335 whp
Ford Motorsport Tremec T5z 5 speed transmission
275 Hoosier Koni 3011 coilovers 900 Lbs/inch springs - Daily Driver

BillSchenker

Is that question directed towards me? If so, if all things were equal, well tuned ECU, good source of fresh air, intake length dyno tested, port matching done, really well built motor, great headers, really good exhaust (all that I have - and the only thing I can speak w/any knowledge about) the answer is no.

I had what was considered the hottest IRTBs at the time: TWM. When I went back to a stock intake mani, I gained HP and lost no throttle response. Now understand, that in going to the IRTBs, I went to a dyno tuned ECU, port matching, and good headers and exhaust - so I GAINED throttle response and HP over bone stock. BUT, when I went back to an oem '99 intake mani, I still had the ECU, headers, exhaust, re-dyno tuned the motor and I did port matching on that mani as well.

As I said before, if I had a BIG R&D budget to figure out runner length, diameter and WHERE the narrowest part of the runner should be, I might gain HP. But I most certainly would lose power down low and in the lower mid range and THAT is very important in Solo (and street driving I think too).