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Old 08-22-2010, 09:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default formulas for runner length and size

any good links or book references to figure out ideal runner length for RPM?
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

it's really determined by running different lengths on a dyno. It varies depending on the engine head's flow.
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stick with something you can actually do.

like putting some sportmaxes on it.
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

If we were charting new ground I could believe that. But the Miata heads have been flowed, tweeked and tuned to death by the SM $$$$

someone's written something......some where......
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Keith Tanner has some really good info and research into miata headers. Send him an email and look at his targa miata page he custom made the header for that car.
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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Originally Posted by Gearhead_Jay View Post
Keith Tanner has some really good info and research into miata headers. Send him an email and look at his targa miata page he custom made the header for that car.
intake runners, not headers.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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intake runners, not headers.
Ah well then different story. You should put that in your first post so people know.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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Ah well then different story. You should put that in your first post so people know.
ok, I thought this was the place to ask about individual runner throttle bodies
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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ok, I thought this was the place to ask about individual runner throttle bodies
Oops my fault then let me correct myself didn't check the forum section. I'm tired, Still email keith though he has a lot of knowledge and insight.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!


I giggled.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Eh?

http://www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

that helps, but I was looking for something more in depth.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:56 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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intake runners, not headers.
There is a guy with a silver NB doing close to 500hp with the factory manifold. Go figure.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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There is a guy with a silver NB doing close to 500hp with the factory manifold. Go figure.
I doubt he's normaly aspirated or a 1.6
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:44 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

lol, he is not. You just have to put a turbine in the other side and that's it
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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that helps, but I was looking for something more in depth.
more in depth? do you know you're dealing with like a 2% difference in output?

non turbo guys are pretty funny
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stick with something you can actually do.

like putting some sportmaxes on it.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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more in depth? do you know you're dealing with like a 2% difference in output?

non turbo guys are pretty funny
it's not your car....does it mater how I spend my money?
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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it's not your car....does it mater how I spend my money?
I've had itbs before. runner lengths make no noticable difference unless your motor has 10k in it, in which case it will still make no noticable difference but you'll gain like 7hp on a dyno
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stick with something you can actually do.

like putting some sportmaxes on it.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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I've had itbs before. runner lengths make no noticable difference unless your motor has 10k in it, in which case it will still make no noticable difference but you'll gain like 7hp on a dyno
and your pessimism about it won't change my desire to reinvent the wheel again..........


(when's the last time you saw a turbo Miata run in CSP?)
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

considering you got a 1.6 anything you can do will be irrelevent when (not if) you get a 1.8
if you want better runners just go to 1.8 problem solved
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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considering you got a 1.6 anything you can do will be irrelevent when (not if) you get a 1.8
if you want better runners just go to 1.8 problem solved
ok, let's get a few things straight.

This thread is NOT about my build plan. What I do with my car, and whatever motor happens to be in it at the time doesn't mater.

how about some links to the math for determining optimum intake runner length. If not, please don't post in this thread.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

90R,

The point everyone is trying to make is that we just drive a Miata. We aren't dyno queen trying to squeeze every little HP out of our 1700hp Supra's.

There really is no solid info on runner length other than general theory. Go to amazon. Look up high performance intake manifolds. Read a book.

Now you know everything that we know. Still concerned? Go buy a dyno. Make your own manifold and test out different designs and lengths and let us know how it goes.

I also have a Celica so I go to Celicatech when it comes to crazy shit like this. (many members make there own manifolds)
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

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90R,

The point everyone is trying to make is that we just drive a Miata. We aren't dyno queen trying to squeeze every little HP out of our 1700hp Supra's.

There really is no solid info on runner length other than general theory. Go to amazon. Look up high performance intake manifolds. Read a book.

Now you know everything that we know. Still concerned? Go buy a dyno. Make your own manifold and test out different designs and lengths and let us know how it goes.

I also have a Celica so I go to Celicatech when it comes to crazy shit like this. (many members make there own manifolds)
:shrug:
I was referred to Club Roadster as the IRTB "center of the universe" for Miatas......thanks anyway.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

Found this a while back when I had my ae86.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

I haven't done any numbers, on account of it ain't my car, but you'd probably need an unreasonably long runner to see benefit in an autocross-friendly rev range.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Quote:
Originally Posted by monwren5 View Post
http://www.wallaceracing.com/runnertorquecalc.php

Found this a while back when I had my ae86.
nice, bookmarked
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90R View Post
ok, let's get a few things straight.

This thread is NOT about my build plan. What I do with my car, and whatever motor happens to be in it at the time doesn't mater.

how about some links to the math for determining optimum intake runner length. If not, please don't post in this thread.
oh my god

your posting

i love it
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Originally Posted by arbumreaf View Post
stick with something you can actually do.

like putting some sportmaxes on it.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Helmholtz Resonator Theory bro.
In all reality, if you're too lazy to use google to find the equations, you're too lazy to use them.
If you're too lazy to run the equations then I'm sure you're too lazy to figure out which wave you want to hit.
If you're too lazy to figure out which wave you want then
blah blah blah
blah
A miracle happens
Long story short, why help you when you're not going to build it?
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asx View Post
blah blah blah
blah
A miracle happens
This is what I'm banking on every time I spend money on car parts.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asx View Post
Helmholtz Resonator Theory bro.
In all reality, if you're too lazy to use google to find the equations, you're too lazy to use them.
If you're too lazy to run the equations then I'm sure you're too lazy to figure out which wave you want to hit.
If you're too lazy to figure out which wave you want then
blah blah blah
blah
A miracle happens
Long story short, why help you when you're not going to build it?
wow, I guess you did enjoy some hateraise today....:rolleyes:

There are still people in this world who have careers, the DON"T sit in front of a computer 10hrs a day.
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Old 08-25-2010, 01:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: formulas for runner length and size

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90R View Post
If we were charting new ground I could believe that. But the Miata heads have been flowed, tweeked and tuned to death by the SM $$$$

someone's written something......some where......
SM guys spend the money to figure flow, they do not however make these items common knowledge to the competition. That is just a common knowledge thing. 1.8 swap will gain you double what runner length will. gearing is where I would look. I have a few guys come to the shop who run csp and I have never heard the word runner length come up once.. These guys are pretty competitive.. sorry if I don't have your answer but you are barking up the wrong tree
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