Blackbird Fabworx 10 point half cage, now NASA legal!

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 05:05 PM

Great news!

Until now, if you wanted to go to the track with NASA you needed to install a rollbar that was spec'd out to hold a concrete truck.
This of course resulted in a weight penalty.
Another downside of this requirement was that if you ever wanted to upgrade it to a full cage you'd have to remove it and start from scratch because of the completely different specs that rollbars and cages are built to.

Not anymore.
Blackbird Fabworx had devised custom specifications light weight half cage that comply with NASA's requirement and be fully legal for HPDE and time trials!

If you're thinking of converting your car to a full track car but still driving it on the street this is the best option.
Driving with a fully caged miata on the street is not recommended because of the proximity between your head to the forward braces which can have disasterous results in an accident with no helmet on (even with padding).

Here's what you're getting -

* NASA approved for HPDE/TT 10 point half cage that is easily upgradeable to a full cage, welded-in
* Super stiff chassis that no 4 point rollbar can be compared with
* Hardtop compatible, can be built to accomodate a plastic and even glass window soft top as well!
* Minimum weight penalty - approximate weight of only 60 lbs. finished (compare with nearly 50 lbs for a heavy spec 4 point rollbar)
* Fits most miata-sized racing seats - it is recommended to have the seats at hand to confirm fitment.

How much does it cost?

Roughly $2000 for what you're seeing in the pics minus the paint job.
Compare other routes -

* Buying a 4 pt. rollbar and door bars from any manufacturer, by the shipping costs and / or installation costs are all paid, you're well north of $1000 with a heavier product that can not be upgraded to a full cage.

* Getting a full 10 point cage done in a proper shop (no exhaust pipes on a harbor freight kinker), costing $3K and up and you have a car that is unsafe for street use.

So, being a good middle ground the price is roughly in the middle too.

Moti

cleanmx5 · 09-22-2011, 05:13 PM

shit looks sweet moti! you are an artist at this!

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 05:14 PM

Thank you kindly!
Just wait and see what's going into my NB

Moti

cleanmx5 · 09-22-2011, 05:26 PM

damn i cant wait. just make sure you build something no one has ever seen before haha

NAautoxer · 09-22-2011, 05:31 PM

wait, nasa allows TT and HPDE to run a 4 point bar like Hard dog hard core.. i'm confused here... nice bar though.

aug · 09-22-2011, 05:50 PM

* Minimum weight penalty - approximate weight of only 60 lbs. finished (compare with nearly 50 lbs for a heavy spec 4 point rollbar)

He didn't say that 4 points weren't usable, but that for the same weight, you can have something more functional and safe.

Not saying I agree with anything, just restating.

Twibs415 · 09-22-2011, 05:53 PM

looks sweet can we have shots from the trunk to see the mounting points back there as well?

Glade · 09-22-2011, 06:07 PM

Available as a bolt/ weld on kit? For those of us 2500 miles away...

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAautoxer

wait, nasa allows TT and HPDE to run a 4 point bar like Hard dog hard core.. i'm confused here... nice bar though.

Yes they do, but if you're thinking about converting your car into a full track car you'll be throwing money down the drain if you buy one of those.

NASA legal rollbars are built with 1.75x0.120 tubing and 3/16" mounting and backing plates, making them very heavy, and since they don't go the floor the ability to convert them to a full cage at some point is questionable.
Not that you'd want to build your cage with 15 lbs weight penalty sitting right at the top of the car to start with.

So to sum it up, if you ever wanted to upgrade your setup beyond a 4 point rollbar you'll have to start from zero and sell it at a loss.
This will especially hurt your pocket if you paid someone else for installation.

Instead, the Blackbird Fabworx half cage is built with conversion into a full cage in mind, meaning the day you want to upgrade to a full cage, everything is simply ready to go.
No removing, no cutting, no losing money, no weight penalty.

Yes it costs more but it is a great jumping point to a full cage and allows one to spread the expense of building a full cage in a way that was not available before.

Of course, no need to mention that to start with the 10 pointer is FAR superior to any 4 point bolt on rollbar...

Twibs,
Sorry I don't have any shots from the back, but the legs go pretty much right next to the shock mount.

Moti

kung fu jesus · 09-22-2011, 06:58 PM

Very clever and well thought out, Moti.

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 07:18 PM

Thank you, Steve.
Coming from someone with your level of knowledge and experience this means a lot

.

There's much more to it than it seems, this isn't just a rollbar on steroids..
And now, it's NASA approved!

Moti

bigx5murf · 09-22-2011, 07:23 PM

Can you show where the rear legs mount to? Judging from where it goes into the package tray, I'd say its right on top of the rear top hats.

NAautoxer · 09-22-2011, 07:26 PM

i understand completely now.. just didn't make sense at first.

definitely is much more than an average roll bar. i like it. really good work man.

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 07:26 PM

Bigx5murf, Someone already asked the same question just a few messages above

Sorry I don't have a pic, but it goes right next to the shock mount, something like 2" away.
Right where it needs to be.

Moti

bigx5murf · 09-22-2011, 07:28 PM

So around where the HDHC mounts to in the rear? The legs look so much further back in the HDHC, must be because there's no soft top?

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigx5murf

So around where the HDHC mounts to in the rear? The legs look so much further back in the HDHC, must be because there's no soft top?

No, the rollbar you mention does not bolt nearly as far back simply because it isn't possible, you have to bolt it where you can put a backing plate.

The mounting plates of rear legs on my half cage are welded to the frame rails right next to the shock mounts.
Way stronger and ties stuff much better.

Moti

freedomgli · 09-22-2011, 08:29 PM

Beautiful. If I got serious about time trial I'd drive my car across the US so I could hire you to help build it up.

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedomgli

Beautiful. If I got serious about time trial I'd drive my car across the US so I could hire you to help build it up.

I hear that the time trial scene in DC is going out of control, better jump on it!

Thanks man.

Original message will be updated with prices in a couple minutes.

Moti

newold_m · 09-22-2011, 10:40 PM

Looks like a work of art. Can't wait to pick up my 6 point GT3 in two days..

Blackbird · 09-22-2011, 10:42 PM

Thanks Murat!
The powder coating on your parts was done by the end of today (and confirmed on the phone) so things will be waiting for you as planned.

Original message updated with pricing.

Moti

ThePass · 09-23-2011, 04:18 PM

Such a cool idea for a car that does serious work on the track but is still driven on the street and needs to retain a hybrid of street functionality/safety and track safety. And the versatility to move up to a full cage later makes it a no-brainer. Kind of like what my car needs... hmmm...

Headed to Blackbird Fabworx soon

mighty mouse · 09-23-2011, 04:21 PM

That is awesome! Nice work too

robr · 09-23-2011, 04:37 PM

Do you have pics of it converted/upgraded to a full cage? Cost on that?

grantwilson · 09-23-2011, 11:34 PM

im just reiterating the 2k price tag

arent weld in spec miata cages like 1200?

1vicissitude · 09-23-2011, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantwilson

im just reiterating the 2k price tag

arent weld in spec miata cages like 1200?

For an uninstalled box of DOM, yes.

Broketuner · 09-24-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantwilson

im just reiterating the 2k price tag

arent weld in spec miata cages like 1200?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1vicissitude

For an uninstalled box of DOM, yes.

Also:
cookie cutter vs. Custom to your need
No work required vs. Several hours of welding or a decent amount of labor costs
gusseted to car vs welded in at only 6 points
oh yeah & finally
Streetable vs deathtrap

be good · 09-24-2011, 12:29 AM

can i order one of these as a weld in? i live fairly far from ca.

ThePass · 09-24-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broketuner

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1vicissitude

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantwilson

im just reiterating the 2k price tag

arent weld in spec miata cages like 1200?

For an uninstalled box of DOM, yes.

Also:
cookie cutter vs. Custom to your need
No work required vs. Several hours of welding or a decent amount of labor costs
gusseted to car vs welded in at only 6 points
oh yeah & finally
Streetable vs deathtrap

Quoted for truth. $1200 for the cage, then another minimum $800 for install, but a lot of shops would charge north of $1000 for that labor, and then you still just have a bare minimums cage. And I would bet that this 10-point half cage, as it is, before being converted to a full cage probably provides as much rigidity to the car as an entry level full spec miata cage does. 10 points vs. 6...

Moti - do you have a picture from the rear of the car? I'm looking at the diagonal for the main hoop and the diagonal for the rear legs and it looks like if you looked straight on from the rear those would make an X which probably looks pretty awesome..
-Ryan

grantwilson · 09-24-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broketuner

Also:

Streetable vs deathtrap

this is what im wondering about

why deathtrap

grantwilson · 09-24-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePass

Quoted for truth. $1200 for the cage, then another minimum $800 for install, but a lot of shops would charge north of $1000 for that labor, and then you still just have a bare minimums cage. And I would bet that this 10-point half cage, as it is, before being converted to a full cage probably provides as much rigidity to the car as an entry level full spec miata cage does. 10 points vs. 6...

Moti - do you have a picture from the rear of the car? I'm looking at the diagonal for the main hoop and the diagonal for the rear legs and it looks like if you looked straight on from the rear those would make an X which probably looks pretty awesome..
-Ryan

bare minimum?
door bars, halo, front bars, etc etc are FAR from minimum.
hell the harddog spec miata cage i have is bolt in, (i guess i could weld it if i wanted) but its a full cage.

09-22-2011, 05:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Blackbird Junior Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 1,099	10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Great news! Until now, if you wanted to go to the track with NASA you needed to install a rollbar that was spec'd out to hold a concrete truck. This of course resulted in a weight penalty. Another downside of this requirement was that if you ever wanted to upgrade it to a full cage you'd have to remove it and start from scratch because of the completely different specs that rollbars and cages are built to. Not anymore. Blackbird Fabworx had devised custom specifications light weight half cage that comply with NASA's requirement and be fully legal for HPDE and time trials! If you're thinking of converting your car to a full track car but still driving it on the street this is the best option. Driving with a fully caged miata on the street is not recommended because of the proximity between your head to the forward braces which can have disasterous results in an accident with no helmet on (even with padding). Here's what you're getting - * NASA approved for HPDE/TT 10 point half cage that is easily upgradeable to a full cage, welded-in * Super stiff chassis that no 4 point rollbar can be compared with * Hardtop compatible, can be built to accomodate a plastic and even glass window soft top as well! * Minimum weight penalty - approximate weight of only 60 lbs. finished (compare with nearly 50 lbs for a heavy spec 4 point rollbar) * Fits most miata-sized racing seats - it is recommended to have the seats at hand to confirm fitment. How much does it cost? Roughly $2000 for what you're seeing in the pics minus the paint job. Compare other routes - * Buying a 4 pt. rollbar and door bars from any manufacturer, by the shipping costs and / or installation costs are all paid, you're well north of $1000 with a heavier product that can not be upgraded to a full cage. * Getting a full 10 point cage done in a proper shop (no exhaust pipes on a harbor freight kinker), costing $3K and up and you have a car that is unsafe for street use. So, being a good middle ground the price is roughly in the middle too. Moti
	__________________ Visit the Blackbird Fabworx facebook page! Last edited by Blackbird; 09-22-2011 at 10:39 PM.

09-22-2011, 05:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
cleanmx5 Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Socal Posts: 570	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! shit looks sweet moti! you are an artist at this!

09-22-2011, 05:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Blackbird Junior Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 1,099	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Thank you kindly! Just wait and see what's going into my NB Moti
	__________________ Visit the Blackbird Fabworx facebook page!

09-22-2011, 05:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
cleanmx5 Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Socal Posts: 570	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! damn i cant wait. just make sure you build something no one has ever seen before haha

09-22-2011, 05:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
NAautoxer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Strasburg, VA Posts: 2,807	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! wait, nasa allows TT and HPDE to run a 4 point bar like Hard dog hard core.. i'm confused here... nice bar though.
	__________________ my build thread: http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/89-roadster-projects/53809-my-retro-inspired-track-toy.html

09-22-2011, 05:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
aug Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 221	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! * Minimum weight penalty - approximate weight of only 60 lbs. finished (compare with nearly 50 lbs for a heavy spec 4 point rollbar) He didn't say that 4 points weren't usable, but that for the same weight, you can have something more functional and safe. Not saying I agree with anything, just restating.

09-22-2011, 05:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Twibs415 Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: SF Posts: 842	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! looks sweet can we have shots from the trunk to see the mounting points back there as well?

09-22-2011, 06:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
Glade Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 188	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Available as a bolt/ weld on kit? For those of us 2500 miles away...
Glade Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 188

09-22-2011, 06:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
kung fu jesus Ninja Messiah Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 5,894	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Very clever and well thought out, Moti.
	__________________ I ♣ baby seals.

09-22-2011, 07:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
Blackbird Junior Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 1,099	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Thank you, Steve. Coming from someone with your level of knowledge and experience this means a lot . There's much more to it than it seems, this isn't just a rollbar on steroids.. And now, it's NASA approved! Moti
	__________________ Visit the Blackbird Fabworx facebook page!

09-22-2011, 07:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
bigx5murf Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 606	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Can you show where the rear legs mount to? Judging from where it goes into the package tray, I'd say its right on top of the rear top hats.
bigx5murf Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 606

09-22-2011, 07:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
NAautoxer Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Strasburg, VA Posts: 2,807	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! i understand completely now.. just didn't make sense at first. definitely is much more than an average roll bar. i like it. really good work man.
	__________________ my build thread: http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=53809

09-22-2011, 07:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Blackbird Junior Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 1,099	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Bigx5murf, Someone already asked the same question just a few messages above Sorry I don't have a pic, but it goes right next to the shock mount, something like 2" away. Right where it needs to be. Moti
	__________________ Visit the Blackbird Fabworx facebook page!

09-22-2011, 07:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigx5murf Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 606	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! So around where the HDHC mounts to in the rear? The legs look so much further back in the HDHC, must be because there's no soft top?
bigx5murf Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 606

09-22-2011, 08:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
freedomgli Supporting Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 12,192	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Beautiful. If I got serious about time trial I'd drive my car across the US so I could hire you to help build it up.
	__________________

09-22-2011, 10:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
newold_m Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 231	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Looks like a work of art. Can't wait to pick up my 6 point GT3 in two days..
	__________________ '04 MSM (sold) '97 M (sold)

09-22-2011, 10:42 PM	#20 (permalink)
Blackbird Junior Sponsor Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 1,099	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Thanks Murat! The powder coating on your parts was done by the end of today (and confirmed on the phone) so things will be waiting for you as planned. Original message updated with pricing. Moti
	__________________ Visit the Blackbird Fabworx facebook page!

09-23-2011, 04:18 PM	#21 (permalink)
ThePass Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,301	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Such a cool idea for a car that does serious work on the track but is still driven on the street and needs to retain a hybrid of street functionality/safety and track safety. And the versatility to move up to a full cage later makes it a no-brainer. Kind of like what my car needs... hmmm... Headed to Blackbird Fabworx soon
	__________________ Red '90 Turbo 1.6 - 207whp/208 ft-lbs - track car - Innovation by Blackbird Fabworx Green 1999 - stock DD 2008 1000RR - 172 rwhp "You live more for 5 minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life" -Marco Simoncelli 2003 600RR - track bike

09-23-2011, 04:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
mighty mouse Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NH Posts: 1,648	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! That is awesome! Nice work too
	__________________ 298.6whp - 270ft/lbs - 8500 RPM Build Thread: http://www.clubroadster.net/vb_forum...?t=9930&page=9 Coast Works est. 2010

09-23-2011, 04:37 PM	#23 (permalink)
robr Jr. Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Texar Posts: 79	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! Do you have pics of it converted/upgraded to a full cage? Cost on that?

09-24-2011, 12:29 AM	#27 (permalink)
be good Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,248	Re: 10 point half cage, now NASA legal! can i order one of these as a weld in? i live fairly far from ca.
be good Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,248	__________________ "Johnny C" Nine lives Racing grip racer. watch my website for...ls1 miata build, upgrades. race video and pics. updated daily-> www.JohnnyCichowski.com

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