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Old 12-08-2016, 12:21 AM   #2281 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

so how come when seeking so much weight savings and this being a full race car, you are retaining the power steering? i would think it's one of the first things to go


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Old 12-08-2016, 12:50 AM   #2282 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Call it an experiment. I've had manual steering for years. With big tires and aero it can be a real workout.

This new engine comes with power steering. Rather than rip it off without trying it, I'm going to try it out first. Keeping it powered costs weight but could dramatically reduce fatigue, and that could mean an easier car to drive and therefore faster and more consistent lap times. We'll see.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:45 AM   #2283 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

I love seeing this and Morpheus coming together at the same time, two epic builds with some big variations. Extreme aero vs big power. I'd be very interested in the results once you and Moti go head to head again.
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:53 AM   #2284 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinMB View Post
I love seeing this and Morpheus coming together at the same time, two epic builds with some big variations. Extreme aero vs big power. I'd be very interested in the results once you and Moti go head to head again.
Totally not the case, we're both going with extreme aero AND big power, just different routes
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:56 PM   #2285 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

I'd like nothing more than for Moti and I to go out there and rewrite what Miatas are expected to be capable of
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:06 PM   #2286 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

We will, buddy.
We definitely will.
And we will do it in our own way, without following any recipes, other than maybe something that will go on the track side BBQ.
And we will have beer.
That's the plan.
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:44 PM   #2287 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Lol, I mean currently. I'd say Ryan's car definitely has some very aggressive aero, but not quite as extreme as complete flat bottom with removable roof and streamlined everything. There's still hope I tho
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:03 PM   #2288 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Currently Ryan's car is a giant paper weight that has an integrated Black hole for Money and and Morpheus is a Black hole for money that barely has enough acceleration to get out of its own way...
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:06 PM   #2289 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Currently my car has zero aero

But man, my garage has all the downforces... full flat bottom, diffuser, splitter, canards, trunk spoiler, custom rear wing, and about 4 other airfoils sitting around just for "hey you never know"
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:06 PM   #2290 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Paint dried overnight so I unmasked it today to see how it turned out.

The bay is a medium gray and the cage in the car is pearl white, so I carried that color into the engine bay where the cage extends to the shock towers.



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Old 12-08-2016, 02:18 PM   #2291 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

fantastic work Ryan! Can't wait to see this in person sometime.

-Henry
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:18 PM   #2292 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Can't wait to see the final product.
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:24 AM   #2293 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Does the class you are in require to keep "stock" shock towers? After all that work curious why you still have the stock part that tires tend to rub on, figured you would cut off/redo the outside rails too where the fenders hang.

Great looking work regardless.
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Old 12-09-2016, 11:58 AM   #2294 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Precisely. GTA Limited class and RLTA Modified class allow modification/removal of anything forward of the shock tower. Can't cut up the chassis behind that.
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Old 12-09-2016, 12:32 PM   #2295 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Relevant bits from rule book:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Global Time Attack - Limited Class 2016
A.4
OEM front and rear shock towers must remain intact and attached to OEM tub as stock. Shock/struts must attach to these towers and must pass through the original hole in the towers. The shock tower may be modified to install shock mounts reinforcement or spacers but the OEM structure must remain in place. They may be clearanced for engine swap fitment only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Global Time Attack - Limited Class 2016
A.6
Frame and chassis may be modified to allow for proper suspension travel but are restricted to those modifications necessary to accomplish the above. The chassis/frame rails ahead of the front and behind the rear shock towers and suspension pick up points may be modified or removed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline Time Attack - Modified Class 2016
18-4.1 All vehicles must have OEM front and rear shock towers in the OEM stock location. Vehicles must utilize the
OEM shock towers for shock/strut attachment. Attachment of camber and or castor adjusting devices is unrestricted.
The OEM shock towers must be intact and the shock mount must pass through the original hole in the towers. The
tower may be modified to
install shock mounts, reinforcement or spacers but the OEM structure must remain in place.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:16 AM   #2296 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Big day, engine and transmission are officially in! For the final time (fingers crossed).

First, flywheel and clutch. The factory clutch and flywheel combo are over 50 lbs (!!!). While the standard clutch will likely hold up to lots of abuse in a car that's half the weight of the original, I wanted to trim weight from the combo for faster engine response so I went with the following combo by SPEC. More torque capacity is a bonus, it'll be more than enough for now and will give me lots of headroom if I get crazy down the road.

Flywheel part # SC36A-2. It's massive because it has to take up the space that the factory flywheel/flex plate combo used. Still, being all aluminum it comes in lighter at 18.85 lbs. The flywheel isn't cheap but with the replaceable steel friction disc it should be infinitely rebuildable, never need to buy another one again.



Clutch - SPEC part # SC361R-2-H. It's a part number that doesn't really exist on their site, Stage 1 clutch, organic full face disc, rigid hub, upgraded with higher clamp load option, brings the torque rating up to 470 ft-lbs. Definitely more than enough. Nice and light at 12.35 lbs.



Combined weight of the new combo comes to 31.20 lbs, ~20 lbs lighter than factory clutch and flywheel combo:



With that done, we joined the transmission and engine and put 'er in:





Notes on installing engine...

We decided to put the engine and transmission in as one unit because room is tight around the top of the bellhousing to the tunnel and firewall. With the long flywheel/clutch assebly, it didn't look like it would be possible to get the bellhousing over the clutch with the engine already in place. With the front of the car absent we had more options than usual so with the subframe already in we lifted the whole engine/trans and dropped it in tail-first and then lifted the tail of the trans to align the engine mounts. This would have been very difficult with a front of a car there and was still a good bit of work.

Discussing options after doing it this way, we're thinking the best method in the future is to assemble the subframe and engine mounts along with the engine and trans out of the car, put that whole assembly on a dolly and then lower the car onto the assembly. We figure this is going to be the easiest method for those with an intact nose as well.

Other notes...

Before they went in I installed the brake booster and brake master cylinder. Here I'm using our wilwood 1" master cylinder kit with tandem reservoirs which pairs very well with most big brake kits.

Also installed the clutch master cylinder. For this, I forgot to snap a photo but I had to do a little grinding on the clutch pedal itself - the new Wilwood master cylinder's clevis on the end of the rod works mounts to the Miata clutch pedal, but the wilwood clevis is not as deep as the Miata's, so the pedal bottoms out in the throat of the clevis' "U" shape when fully pressed down or not pressed at all. You can easily see it when test fitting the clevis to the pedal. A little grinding on the pedal creates the clearance needed.

Funny, when you get rid of the front of the car the alternator and power steering pump clearances really open up

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Old 12-11-2016, 02:35 AM   #2297 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

<3
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:22 AM   #2298 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

ThatsHot.gif
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Old 12-11-2016, 06:07 PM   #2299 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Oops.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:15 PM   #2300 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Just before the holidays hit I was deep in connecting hoses and wiring for the final time. Bit of a mess while sorting through what still needs to be figured out, needs to be tweaked, etc. but here's a quick snapshot of about where we are at the moment:



And, decided to spring for some trick fittings to go hand in hand with the quickly removable front end design, still waiting on parts to arrive but for now here's a teaser of the dry break fittings that will be going on the power steering lines:

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Old 01-11-2017, 03:32 PM   #2301 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Those fittings are smexy af.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:22 PM   #2302 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

are those the staubli ones?

-Henry
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:49 PM   #2303 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

The ones in the pic are by Radium. They do relatively affordable -6 and -8 dry breaks. For the oil cooler which is -10, I had to go Staubli still waiting on those to arrive.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:32 AM   #2304 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Yesssssss! Dry break all the things, and then cry as the wallet empties so fast it makes your head spin haha. Such a great product but so spendy. Curious to see how Radium's product holds up, they're local to me and they do great work
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:47 PM   #2305 (permalink)
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these are Staubli's low cost line:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gr...pID=STAUBLIRMI

-Henry
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:08 PM   #2306 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Yep, still more cost than Radium, but Radium doesn't make -10 so Staubli it is for that.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:49 PM   #2307 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Shop budget, huh?
What's next, a Dzus fanster tool?
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:44 PM   #2308 (permalink)
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Shop budget, huh?
What's next, a Dzus fanster tool?
Rice budget.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:08 PM   #2309 (permalink)
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Did Ryan ever tell you the story about the world's most expensive dzus fastener tool?
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:26 AM   #2310 (permalink)
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Default Re: My NA becomes a track car (Build thread)

Doing some napkin math for other fun places the car may fit in.

Looking at NASA, when you move above the complicated mess of the lettered classes on up to ST/TT 1, 2, 3 things get much simpler. With a good bit of power taking the tighter-regulated TT4 out of the question it gets even simpler. Basically take a dyno and weight baseline which then applies modifiers for certain mods and you end up with an adjusted power/weight ratio and that's that. Everything in class is same adjusted ratio. Obviously this favors a wide torque curve, and this motor should be great for that.

TT2 cars have an adjusted wt/hp of 8.00:1 or more (up to 10.00:1 which is TT3)
2300 lbs with driver / 300 whp = 7.67:1
Relevant adjustments:
Comp weight over 2200, less than 2599 = -0.2
Tire size 245 or smaller (DOT approved) = +0.7 or Tire size 275 or smaller (DOT approved) = +0.3
Non-production vehicle = -0.4

A note on the non-production vehicle bit.. have to take that due to the tubular front subframe, but this comes with some benefits. First, I don't have to take the -0.2 for cutting the rocker for exhaust routing for production vehicles, so it's really only -0.2 more than if it was considered a production car. But more importantly, with it considered a non-production car there's no concern about the tubular/removable front nose being OK.

So, with adjustments, 7.77:1 with 245 tires or 7.37:1 with 275's

Ballasting up to 2375 lbs with 245 hoosiers puts me at an est. adjusted 8.01:1, right at the pointy end of TT2.

While RLTA and GTA are my primary focus... and yeah, TT2 is full of Vettes and Vipers, it could be fun to mix it up there and see how it stacks up. Always love a challenge
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